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Starting February 1st ALL new Exiern pages will post ONLY to Exiern.com and Our Patreon. Please read and support us there!
Swords, Sorcery, And Then Some!
Howdy, New Readers! Thanks for reading Exiern!
Written by Scott T. Hicken with art by Antipus, the comic updates Mondays. Please check out the Archive to enjoy the earlier adventures of Typh and Peonie!
Exiern contains mature themes and is best for readers 18+.
Do you think we’re going to see any people who were unintentionally changed who didn’t previously have any interest in being changed and wouldn’t have sought it out but then unlike Typh (so far), over time eventually end up adapting to/getting used to the change and end up not trying to/or actively going out of their way to change back? You’d have to think it’s at least a possibility (giving the amount of transmogrification that seems to be going on all the time).
A possible candidate might be Pip I suppose as now the king’s forced the rules to be changed, Pip can once again be a candidate for spellsinger training (seems awfully shallow that if your body is changed, you suddenly get disqualified). If the curse proves sufficiently stubborn to shift, there’s always the chance that some people affected by it might end up coming to terms with their circumstances if enough time passes. Thoughts anyone?
Also just realised when Pip tells see “Wow they have remarkable survival instincts in this town”, either Pip must have been present when that bar fight happened between Faden and Typh or at the very least heard about it. I prefer to believe the former though.
@Jake, David:
Some things are never resolved, exactly, but since I think Terry is essentially a decent human being, now that she’s aware of what Typh’s problem with her is, she’s not going to be so abrasive about the change.
@Shan: “seems awfully shallow that if your body is changed, you suddenly get disqualified.”
I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Men and women do in fact tend to have different emotional responses, and it may well be that the Church of Ren has found that, in general, female spellsingers are more disruptive than males. And while some women undoubtedly can make good ones, the majority of bad ones do more damage than the minority of good ones. So a perfectly reasonable rule is established which is unfair to some individuals, but protects society in the long run. After several generations, the experiences that informed the rule are forgotten, except for a few canonical examples, and society stops even trying to make exceptions for unusual cases, which Terry certainly is one of.
I’m not dismissing it out of hand, it’s just that Pip’s a special case (possibly).
In our world, almost everyone’s gender is either male or female regardless of external bits and pieces (most people in both genders have their brains match their externals though).
However, in this world there’s also the people who unintentionally get whammied like Typh (male brain in biological female body) and Pip (ditto unless later stated otherwise going by population statistics). Which is different from being born female in gender and having said body to match.
So as far as we know, Pip still has a male brain that suddenly found itself in a whole new body and one of the first things thought of is that the Brotherhood and spellsinging training is out of the window. (Another thing which I guess wasn’t meant to be pondered as it isn’t important is also that Pip was wondering how he was going to live. Made me wonder how he was supporting himself up to now before his accident).
Anyway, I thought the short story (A Woman’s Place) established that the Church of Rem were just being jerks by excluding women.
To add to the subject of Pip, I wonder what’s going to happen. Looking at Alicia and the other people who end up turning into dragons, maybe some of them don’t want to (“But mommmm, I don’t want to be a dragon!”) which seemed to be Alicia’s reaction at first but now perhaps she seems to possibly getting used to it (?). By the same token it seems statistically likely that at least a handful of people who get gender bent end up accepting their new gender even if grudgingly (especially if goes on long enough with no end in sight). I just wonder if we’re going to see that outcome with anyone (so far out of the others, with the exception of Typh everyone else has ended up where they want to be for now).
[b]@Shan:[/b] I’d forgotten [i]Woman’s Place[/i], or never read it. Interesting, and I suppose that it shows my model does not apply here. (although I think it does in the real world).
However, note that Terry herself is attacked because her behavior even as a male showed his tendency to pursue fleshly pleasures at the expense of his priestly practice. I think she was distrusted for that at least as much as for turning female. Had she not reveled in it, and immediately turned to such frivolities as her hair and dress, and her blatant intent to enjoy her lush sexuality, she might have gotten away with it.
That model does work in the sense that they find women are better suited for a wide range of professions from financial investing, space travel and … well religion too, which is why increasing numbers of them are ordaining them.
but I was recently rewatching some Fringe episodes and the fact is, as much as I like the regular universe, the alternate Fringe universe has the better technology, weapons, clothes, haircuts and attitudes.
Seeing the same potential here to really run wild. Already a couple of major supporting characters are definitely on quite a major deviation. Really looking forward to a different spin on the same events in the Prime universe.
Still hoping to see Tiffany taking the king up on that marriage proposal for saving Peonie and maybe angling a takeover of the kingdom by outsmarting the king. That would possibly make sense as unlike Typh in the Prime universe, Dark Tiffany is essentially a completely different person with no continuity of memory and possibly for all intents of purposes is female unlike Typh.
The other alternative is that Tiffany does end up marrying Peonie, I guess which I guess could be possible as we really haven’t seen much at all in this society about same sex marriage or general attitude towards gay people at all. Outside of Typh’s father (reaction not positive), I don’t actually recall anyone anywhere else ever having an opinion on the subject.
I guess it gets even more complicated because I don’t think alternate Typh is gay either. He certainly show more interest and is said to have more interest in Peonie than Typh Prime ever has (i.e > absolute zero) so it’s possible he’s straight or bi. Another interesting question to ask is about all the differences in existence in the two universe before the supposed point of divergence (Faden deciding to try and kill Typh himself instead of summoning a demon, as it seems there were differences in the two universes beforehand).
Anyway, I hope one day I can help to contribute in getting its schedule to match the main story so that the potential exists for a crossover one day if they ever want it (the one thing better on Fringe than the alternate universe were alternate universe crossovers).
Right now though, I guess I’m going to have to aim lower for now which is to see how I can help get the “Dark Reflections” advertising banner on Topwebcomics fixed (I was voting on it for about 2 weeks before noticing it actually said “Dark Refections”).
Hopefully soon I get more involved, as much as I’m liking this one, I’m really also enjoying the alternate take on it too.
All this conversation makes me wonder if falling victim to the curse would turn someone like me (straight male) into a straight female, attracted to men, or my preferences will remain the same, making me a lesbian woman, at least in appearance.
This all falls into the speculative, but if the mind and the body pull in opposite directions, which one is stronger? Does it vary from person to person? Does it depend on their willpower, their choice, or does one always trump the other? Will the person end up attracted to both males and females, or perhaps to none? Seems to me that all these could vary depending on how they handle the inner conflict and come to terms with their feelings…
Well, I guess it depends on the type of curse. One of the earlier steps on my very circuitous route to here was the Argentine TV show “Lalola” which was remade in 12 other countries. Even though the start premise was more or less the same (heterosexual ladies man has his body turned into a woman’s by a magical curse – except the Portuguese version which was a crazy geneticist), the end result is a classical multiverse explosion as just about every possibility you could think of plays out.
The Portuguese one is actually interesting in that even though the cause isn’t magical, the lead character actually comes the closest to Typh both in response to the whole situation (if you could imagine Typh as the lead editor of a Portuguese men’s magazine instead of a mercenary barbarian) and even appearance (the actress in question would be a good fit).
(I did end up watching more or less the whole show, it’s interesting how the lead character is both resisting the change the whole way and never really adjusts but also gets on as best as possible with the daily activities of living. Because the mind is the same, really shows no interest in men but on the other hand, things just aren’t the same with women because of the different body, so things get complicated).
A shout out to the artist, those backgrounds are extremely pretty. The light from the moon is excellent and the castle details are great! Wanted to let you know that.
I am very torn over these last few pages. I understand where Typh is coming from, and I agree that Teresa, of all people., should understand what she’s going through.
But…
I’ve lived Teresa’s life, am still living it. I avoid lingering at mirrors, I try to avoid thinking too much about how my body feels, wrapped about my soul. If I were to suddenly find myself magically transformed as she was, I don’t think I’d ever stop smiling, laughing, dancing…,
Yeah, she should understand the pain Typh feels, but at the same time our favorite barbarian should understand the absolute joy Teresa feels. Typh has only had to endure this for a short time, but for Teresa it was decades, a lifetime, literally.
So, here I am. I can’t be mad at either of them, I can’t feel sorrow or joy for them both. I guess I’ll just have to weep with one, as for myself, and rejoice with the other … and wish I could be so lucky.
There was an American film of someone who instead of dying was turned into a woman to determine whether (s)he would go to Heaven or Hell. The determinant being that she found someone who loved her. In the end she gave birth and her child loved her so she went to Heaven.
I set the time of the video just before the changeover scene (or more accurately) swapping one actor out for another and even though this is just 1 of 13 different versions of the same show, I found it the most realistic out of all of them as to how someone might react in this situation.
Added bit of comedy is in the 5th episode, the lead has a reverse Typh experience with his father. He tries to explain to him about the cause of his body change is because of a newly developed chemical slipped into his drink by a vengful one night stand but his father finds it just to fantastic to believe.
So in the end he just finds it easier to “come out” to his family as a woman (everyone at his work thinks he’s his female cousin). Some of the problems start because his family’s actually too accepting of what they think is going on (he’s really no more interesting in dating men than he was before this happened just for starters, in fact it was interest in women that landed him in this mess in the first place).
The actress playing the part really does a good job of portraying someone who’s not a good fit for the body they suddenly found themselves in yet somehow manages to muddle on up to a point with their job and life while also trying to find a way to get changed back. Kind of like the situation here minus the fantasy setting (and a lot of other things) I suppose.
Interesting bit of trivia. The actor who played the character (before) and the actress playing the same character (after) played two characters in a different show having a torrid affair. They kind of looked enough like each other for it to be not impossible to believe they were the same person.
As for the ending of the show, they filmed two endings. The Portuguese audience got to vote on it as to whether he took the option to change back or stay as things now were. As for which way they voted …
Be a Producer!Your name/title with an optional SFW hyperlink will be posted prominently HERE following the close of the month! You’ll also receive monthly mailings from Exiern’s author, Scott T. Hicken!
Oh, it’s the dragon lady again.
It’s her future sister-in-law!
Is it Denver’s sister?
Still, i was hoping Typhan-Knee and Teresa would have resolved things here.
Do you think we’re going to see any people who were unintentionally changed who didn’t previously have any interest in being changed and wouldn’t have sought it out but then unlike Typh (so far), over time eventually end up adapting to/getting used to the change and end up not trying to/or actively going out of their way to change back? You’d have to think it’s at least a possibility (giving the amount of transmogrification that seems to be going on all the time).
A possible candidate might be Pip I suppose as now the king’s forced the rules to be changed, Pip can once again be a candidate for spellsinger training (seems awfully shallow that if your body is changed, you suddenly get disqualified). If the curse proves sufficiently stubborn to shift, there’s always the chance that some people affected by it might end up coming to terms with their circumstances if enough time passes. Thoughts anyone?
Also just realised when Pip tells see “Wow they have remarkable survival instincts in this town”, either Pip must have been present when that bar fight happened between Faden and Typh or at the very least heard about it. I prefer to believe the former though.
@Jake: “You’re a gloating fsckhead” is not something resolved in one strip. If it were, how could one maintain drama?
@Jake, David:
Some things are never resolved, exactly, but since I think Terry is essentially a decent human being, now that she’s aware of what Typh’s problem with her is, she’s not going to be so abrasive about the change.
@Shan: “seems awfully shallow that if your body is changed, you suddenly get disqualified.”
I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Men and women do in fact tend to have different emotional responses, and it may well be that the Church of Ren has found that, in general, female spellsingers are more disruptive than males. And while some women undoubtedly can make good ones, the majority of bad ones do more damage than the minority of good ones. So a perfectly reasonable rule is established which is unfair to some individuals, but protects society in the long run. After several generations, the experiences that informed the rule are forgotten, except for a few canonical examples, and society stops even trying to make exceptions for unusual cases, which Terry certainly is one of.
I’m not dismissing it out of hand, it’s just that Pip’s a special case (possibly).
In our world, almost everyone’s gender is either male or female regardless of external bits and pieces (most people in both genders have their brains match their externals though).
However, in this world there’s also the people who unintentionally get whammied like Typh (male brain in biological female body) and Pip (ditto unless later stated otherwise going by population statistics). Which is different from being born female in gender and having said body to match.
So as far as we know, Pip still has a male brain that suddenly found itself in a whole new body and one of the first things thought of is that the Brotherhood and spellsinging training is out of the window. (Another thing which I guess wasn’t meant to be pondered as it isn’t important is also that Pip was wondering how he was going to live. Made me wonder how he was supporting himself up to now before his accident).
Anyway, I thought the short story (A Woman’s Place) established that the Church of Rem were just being jerks by excluding women.
http://www.exiern.com/2014/10/09/thursday-update-a-womans-place-part-ii/
To add to the subject of Pip, I wonder what’s going to happen. Looking at Alicia and the other people who end up turning into dragons, maybe some of them don’t want to (“But mommmm, I don’t want to be a dragon!”) which seemed to be Alicia’s reaction at first but now perhaps she seems to possibly getting used to it (?). By the same token it seems statistically likely that at least a handful of people who get gender bent end up accepting their new gender even if grudgingly (especially if goes on long enough with no end in sight). I just wonder if we’re going to see that outcome with anyone (so far out of the others, with the exception of Typh everyone else has ended up where they want to be for now).
A shadowy figure this might be, but the hairstyle is kind of distinctive.
Bet Denver’s sister dragon lady gets the Whole new Body thing.
[b]@Shan:[/b] I’d forgotten [i]Woman’s Place[/i], or never read it. Interesting, and I suppose that it shows my model does not apply here. (although I think it does in the real world).
However, note that Terry herself is attacked because her behavior even as a male showed his tendency to pursue fleshly pleasures at the expense of his priestly practice. I think she was distrusted for that at least as much as for turning female. Had she not reveled in it, and immediately turned to such frivolities as her hair and dress, and her blatant intent to enjoy her lush sexuality, she might have gotten away with it.
But of course, that wouldn’t have been any fun.
That model does work in the sense that they find women are better suited for a wide range of professions from financial investing, space travel and … well religion too, which is why increasing numbers of them are ordaining them.
I know I keep banging the drum for Exiern: Dark Reflections
http://extra.exiern.com/comic/dark-reflections-00/
but I was recently rewatching some Fringe episodes and the fact is, as much as I like the regular universe, the alternate Fringe universe has the better technology, weapons, clothes, haircuts and attitudes.
Seeing the same potential here to really run wild. Already a couple of major supporting characters are definitely on quite a major deviation. Really looking forward to a different spin on the same events in the Prime universe.
Still hoping to see Tiffany taking the king up on that marriage proposal for saving Peonie and maybe angling a takeover of the kingdom by outsmarting the king. That would possibly make sense as unlike Typh in the Prime universe, Dark Tiffany is essentially a completely different person with no continuity of memory and possibly for all intents of purposes is female unlike Typh.
The other alternative is that Tiffany does end up marrying Peonie, I guess which I guess could be possible as we really haven’t seen much at all in this society about same sex marriage or general attitude towards gay people at all. Outside of Typh’s father (reaction not positive), I don’t actually recall anyone anywhere else ever having an opinion on the subject.
I guess it gets even more complicated because I don’t think alternate Typh is gay either. He certainly show more interest and is said to have more interest in Peonie than Typh Prime ever has (i.e > absolute zero) so it’s possible he’s straight or bi. Another interesting question to ask is about all the differences in existence in the two universe before the supposed point of divergence (Faden deciding to try and kill Typh himself instead of summoning a demon, as it seems there were differences in the two universes beforehand).
Anyway, I hope one day I can help to contribute in getting its schedule to match the main story so that the potential exists for a crossover one day if they ever want it (the one thing better on Fringe than the alternate universe were alternate universe crossovers).
Right now though, I guess I’m going to have to aim lower for now which is to see how I can help get the “Dark Reflections” advertising banner on Topwebcomics fixed (I was voting on it for about 2 weeks before noticing it actually said “Dark Refections”).
Hopefully soon I get more involved, as much as I’m liking this one, I’m really also enjoying the alternate take on it too.
All this conversation makes me wonder if falling victim to the curse would turn someone like me (straight male) into a straight female, attracted to men, or my preferences will remain the same, making me a lesbian woman, at least in appearance.
This all falls into the speculative, but if the mind and the body pull in opposite directions, which one is stronger? Does it vary from person to person? Does it depend on their willpower, their choice, or does one always trump the other? Will the person end up attracted to both males and females, or perhaps to none? Seems to me that all these could vary depending on how they handle the inner conflict and come to terms with their feelings…
So many questions!
@ Nef
Well, I guess it depends on the type of curse. One of the earlier steps on my very circuitous route to here was the Argentine TV show “Lalola” which was remade in 12 other countries. Even though the start premise was more or less the same (heterosexual ladies man has his body turned into a woman’s by a magical curse – except the Portuguese version which was a crazy geneticist), the end result is a classical multiverse explosion as just about every possibility you could think of plays out.
The Portuguese one is actually interesting in that even though the cause isn’t magical, the lead character actually comes the closest to Typh both in response to the whole situation (if you could imagine Typh as the lead editor of a Portuguese men’s magazine instead of a mercenary barbarian) and even appearance (the actress in question would be a good fit).
(Before and after here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM5Ux7PYzAA&t=7m0s
(I did end up watching more or less the whole show, it’s interesting how the lead character is both resisting the change the whole way and never really adjusts but also gets on as best as possible with the daily activities of living. Because the mind is the same, really shows no interest in men but on the other hand, things just aren’t the same with women because of the different body, so things get complicated).
A shout out to the artist, those backgrounds are extremely pretty. The light from the moon is excellent and the castle details are great! Wanted to let you know that.
I am very torn over these last few pages. I understand where Typh is coming from, and I agree that Teresa, of all people., should understand what she’s going through.
But…
I’ve lived Teresa’s life, am still living it. I avoid lingering at mirrors, I try to avoid thinking too much about how my body feels, wrapped about my soul. If I were to suddenly find myself magically transformed as she was, I don’t think I’d ever stop smiling, laughing, dancing…,
Yeah, she should understand the pain Typh feels, but at the same time our favorite barbarian should understand the absolute joy Teresa feels. Typh has only had to endure this for a short time, but for Teresa it was decades, a lifetime, literally.
So, here I am. I can’t be mad at either of them, I can’t feel sorrow or joy for them both. I guess I’ll just have to weep with one, as for myself, and rejoice with the other … and wish I could be so lucky.
So Sad, Tiff was given Gender Disphoria and Teressa was freed from it. effectively a Double Curse for Tiff.
I wonder if Tiff is channelling the Roman view that (sexually) penetrating – being the top – is good and being penetrated – being the bottom – is bad?
@Shan: Thanks for taking the time to share that. I will check that video at home (YouTube is blocked where I am).
There was an American film of someone who instead of dying was turned into a woman to determine whether (s)he would go to Heaven or Hell. The determinant being that she found someone who loved her. In the end she gave birth and her child loved her so she went to Heaven.
@ Nef
I set the time of the video just before the changeover scene (or more accurately) swapping one actor out for another and even though this is just 1 of 13 different versions of the same show, I found it the most realistic out of all of them as to how someone might react in this situation.
Added bit of comedy is in the 5th episode, the lead has a reverse Typh experience with his father. He tries to explain to him about the cause of his body change is because of a newly developed chemical slipped into his drink by a vengful one night stand but his father finds it just to fantastic to believe.
So in the end he just finds it easier to “come out” to his family as a woman (everyone at his work thinks he’s his female cousin). Some of the problems start because his family’s actually too accepting of what they think is going on (he’s really no more interesting in dating men than he was before this happened just for starters, in fact it was interest in women that landed him in this mess in the first place).
The actress playing the part really does a good job of portraying someone who’s not a good fit for the body they suddenly found themselves in yet somehow manages to muddle on up to a point with their job and life while also trying to find a way to get changed back. Kind of like the situation here minus the fantasy setting (and a lot of other things) I suppose.
Interesting bit of trivia. The actor who played the character (before) and the actress playing the same character (after) played two characters in a different show having a torrid affair. They kind of looked enough like each other for it to be not impossible to believe they were the same person.
As for the ending of the show, they filmed two endings. The Portuguese audience got to vote on it as to whether he took the option to change back or stay as things now were. As for which way they voted …
@ Quentin.
You’re talking about the Blake Edwards film “Switch” starring Ellen Barkin.
At the end, the lead character is asked to choose whether to spend time in heaven as a male angel or a female angel and chooses …
@Shan, yes, that’s the one.