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Howdy, New Readers! Thanks for reading Exiern!
Written by Scott T. Hicken with art by Antipus, the comic updates Thursdays. Please check out the Archive to enjoy the earlier adventures of Typh and Peonie!
Exiern contains mature themes and is best for readers 18+.
There, I guess we just saw what happened when you attack the king with magic. Now let’s see if she’s smart enough to stop now or is she still going to let her temper still get the better of her.
Tee hee, Terry looks so cute with donkey ears! I bet they’re all soft and plush and she’ll learn to love it when her lovers pet them!
Plus, she’ll flick them to indicate annoyance, which will be supercute when she’s mad!
You wanted to be a girl, Terry? You get to be a girl, with all the emotional reflexes that go with it.
Don’t we know someone else who learned that? Why, yes, I believe we do–and it was contagious, which is how you caught it, and that person learned that you had to be careful fighting against it, or it would put you in a brass bikini. If you were lucky.
Vorlonagent : “Those ears are looking far more fitting on you than Urtica, dear. You’re earning them with each panel the story moves forward.”
That does seem to be way to true. Urtica is an Evil Monarch, but he is a competent evil monarch who understands the politics and intrigue required to get things done, and is not blinded by the short term. He has simply been acting to ensure their goals are meet and stay met. This means planning for every contingency he can foresee, even if he hopes it never comes up.
Teressa is throwing a hissy fit because things are not going 100% the way she wants them to, and she has to make a sacrifice to prevent the same situation from occurring again in the future.
The odds are there are only a couple people if any he trusts completely and it would take years to earn his trust. So even hiding a spell from her makes perfect sense she is proving how right he was in doing so.
@50srefuge: What do you mean by “emotional reflex”? More importantly, what happened with Typhan-Knee’s spell didn’t have to do with “emotional reflex”.
And Teresa didn’t “want to be ” a woman, she always was. It’s just that now her outward appearance matches her gender identity.
@Jake : While Teresa should have known to not fully trust Urtica, she should have known enough to be aware he will plot and scheme to ensure he wins, and take every step to protect himself. She is over reacting to him simply acting to protect their actions since the church has just proven that it needs some level of oversight, and she is rejecting that and the carrot he was offering to make it easier for the church to accept the necessary oversight.
Also, there is no sexism here, at least not on my part. Remember the curse shapes you to your ideal image of a woman, so even if she is acting this way due to being a woman, it is more likely because that is how she pictures women in her head, and if not it would be because she has not had time to adapt to the change in her bodies hormones from the gender swap which could rightly cause someone to have issues for a while as they adapt to the huge change in brain chemistry (this might take years to fully adapt to)
Of course at no point did I say or imply she is acting this way because she is a woman, and I have met enough man children and horrible losers out there to know that this type of behaviour is NOT a female trait, but more often a sign of either a lack of maturity, or being spoiled and given everything you want with at no real cost. Trust me there are more then enough stories out there of men reacting just as bad or worse to things not going their way,
@sjmcc13: Except again, Urtica lied to and manipulated Teresa, she has every right to be angry, this isn’t what they had previously agreed to. It’s not a matter of not getting what you want, but a matter of being lied to and the fact that Urtica is overstepping.
My problem is with people saying Teresa is wrong for being angry, when she has every right to be. She held up her end of the bargain.
And…it’s not actually a bad deal for the Church. They could use some supervision, and they get a seat on…something. Plus, that representative could be a valuable ally.
…and there’s no reason that Teresa or a scribe couldn’t review the book without removing it in order to get the names they need.
So, Teresa could have just worked with the situation Urtica set up. Sure, she got manipulated into it, but it works out well.
Also…always read legal documents before you sign them.
He is not overstepping, he is doing his F-ING job and looking after the long term interest of his nation. there is a huge difference.
Also, the only lies/deceptions he told her are not disclosing his countermeasure in case she turned on him, which she is only finding out about because she turned on him, and that since the church needs oversight to make sure this situation never happens again he is going to make sure it gets it. On both cases, if she had kept a functioning head on her shoulders, instead of getting lost in her new position and power, she would see are necessary steps to prevent this in from re-occurring, and she should very well know Urtica well enough to know that he is going to make sure the problem does not re-occur.
The church screwed up, and there has to be a price to pay for that screw up, so far Urtica is enacting the minimum reasonable price (an outside agent ensuring that the corruption is removed, because the church can not be trusted to remove it themselves) and has not said or done anything, he even offered something to lighten the blow this will cause which teresa rejected before he even finished talking.
Teresa is throwing a hissy fit, and getting violent because she does not have the maturity needed to look at the long term picture, and make sure the problem stays resolved.
She wants to be the head of a large and powerful political organization, and that requires you to be able to control your emotions and look at the big picture, Urtica is doing so she is not. Which is why she is in the wrong, she has a right to be upset, but instead she is over reacting and making things worse, both of which are things her new position means she can not do, she needs control.
He always struck me as more Neutral than Evil. Yes, he does nasty things to people who oppose him, but he does seem to care for his kingdom more than his position. (And he certainly cares for his daughter, although evil people can do that as well….)
I’ve been reading this comic for a really long time, since back when Drowemos was drawing it. I’ve never really commented on it publicly, to be honest, though I did exchange a few emails with Drowemos. It’s always been a fun read, and a guilty pleasure.
That said, as of late, I really feel like the writing has gotten… I don’t want to say bad, but stale. I can’t be the only person who is SO TIRED of Urtica ALWAYS coming out on top, no matter what. Like, I get it, he’s intelligent and capable, that’s great. Can we ever see a failure of his? Can he, once, be caught unaware? I’m just so aggravated that everything is constantly according to his plan.
Competent characters can be interesting, but Urtica is very quickly ascending to become a Marty Stu, which is just… Aggravating. Exiern is better than this.
@Ark eh, these events could still end badly for him he cant fall too far ofcourse. Assuming Peonie will keep appearing as a party member, he has to either remain in power so she wont assume the throne and be locked in the alliance, or the kingdom has to fall completely. On a side note, I never got why people need to use Marty Stue, Mary Sue as a trope of too perfect characters doesnt have to be gendered just because the trope name is litterally speaking so.
@sjmcc13 Urtica is indeed doing what he feels is his job… however, Teresa is also trying to do HER job. She’s loyal to the church, to the religion that she has literally devoted her life to. She collaborated with him for mutual gain – i.e. to take down the incredibly corrupt and vile leadership of said church. However… he lied to her. He’s doing the Darth Vader thing and altering the deal, and expecting her to smile and take it.
So far she’s only done one thing in this whole setup that can be seen as wrong, and that was not telling Urtica about the possibility of a duel. She could be excused for that on account of that particular legal option not having been exercised in centuries, and being seen as an admission of guilt just by invoking it. She truly did not think the guy was going to be that vile (notice how she wasn’t even certain of what to do when the bastard then tried to simply WALK AWAY after losing the duel, before Typh stopped him so effectively). It’s quite possible that the only reason Urtica mentioned it was to justify his betrayal. Which it is: breach of oral contract, breaking of their sworn agreement. Betrayal of trust.
By contrast, Urtica is apparently responsible for the song that Teresa has been countering for so long that she’s literally been unable to sleep (no wonder her thinking isn’t at its best). He’s breaking their agreement. And he’s making a VERY blatant power grab, akin to Henry VIII declaring himself head of the Church of England.
Hell yes, Teresa’s angry. The guy she allied with not only betrayed her trust, but he’s apparently been playing her from the very start. She’s now acting to defend her religious organization from this very blatant secular power grab – and a casual review of history will showcase so very many examples of just how badly things go when secular governments claim religious authority.
Question. What happens if Theresa decides to resign from becoming church head before her appointment becomes official? Would the agreement with Urtica dissapear as well? If so Urtica could both loise an ally, gain an enemy, and not get the influence in the church he wants.
@Archeone Thank you. Many people tend to forget that mideval rotalty tended to be in FAVOR of union between church and state they just felt that THEY should hold the reigns.
@Jake & @Archone – I wanted to add my two cents. Theresa did two things, the second FAR more difficult to excuse than the first.
1. Did not give Urtica complete information as to Coriander’s options, putting Peonie at risk and seriously tainting the trial and proceeding that removed Coriander. In short, she nearly shot the entire plan straight to s!!t, either by oversight or because she didn’t trust Urtica enough to share.
2. The much worse option – when confronted on #1, rather than apologize she started in on how her decisions were justified and how it wasn’t her fault that Coriander did the thing that she knew about but chose to discount out of hand.
@Tahnru The second one is easily explained by the fact that she is angry. I tend to get defensive when I am angry, and I bet Theresa does to. Also, be honest. Do you really think that Urtica would have given up control if Theresa had apologized? Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying Theresa didn’t do something wrong. I am saying that you are allto willing to forgive Urtica his transgressions, but you are not willing to forgive Theresa hers. I could be wrong but I am willing to bet that this is because Urtica is such a magnificent Bastard he is fun to watch. I admit I am guilty of this myself. Back when everyone he played were a!!!!!!s who got what they deserved it was easy to overlook how dangerous his methods were.
Okay, I remember Teresa mentioning the background song, but when does she say that it is absent from Peonie’s room, and when was she shown the Fud rune, and how does it count as “amused guilt”?
With such a wall of text, and not a hint of flashback, I’m having trouble following.
I said it before, I’ll say it again, in this world if Urtica could be kerbstomped by magic then someone would already have done it. The Exiern world is lousy with magic users and magical artifacts. You can’t tell me that nobody in the history of the church would not have already tried this. Churches always try to accrue temporal power to go along with spiritual. It would make no sense for what Teresa is trying here to succeed. Its direct frontal attack, the first thing any competent monarch prepares for.
Also Teresa could have prevented all this very simply. She could have asked what would happen to the book in the first place when this was all over instead of assuming she’d get to take it. And she really should have read the EULA Urtica put in front of her before signing. Never blindly sign documents without reading them. If she couldn’t think to do either then maybe she is not really fit for high office. Especially if her response to being out-maneuvered is simply to lose her temper and have a tantrum.
@ Ark, he was taken by surprise and decidedly NOT PLEASED when Coriander played the “Duet of Blades” card.
As for those defending Theresa, even as Brother Thomas, he’s always been a bit of a racist jerk who thinks that anyone not a devout follower of the Church of Rem is, at best, a stupid, ignorant fool deserving of pity.
As Theresa, she seriously underestimated both Urtica, and his righteous rage in being denied critical need-to-know information regarding Coriander’s options. And now, she’s guilty of magically assaulting him. Getting her ears turned to donkey ears would be getting off lightly.
Personally I think BOTH Theresa AND Urtica need to get taken down a peg. It seems to me (I could be wrong) that a lot of the people pointing out Theresa’s fault are also all to ready to overlook the faults of Urtica.
By the way, how many readers are familiar with the Discworld series? Because I’m thinking of Lord Vetinari.
More precisely, I’m thinking of how Vetinari doesn’t avoid assassination by being unkillable, but rather by being so vital that the Assassins Guild refuses to take contracts out against him (or Commander Vimes, and for the same reason) and Unseen University’s archchancellor regards him with the respect due an equal. He might bully people at times while dealing with them, but he generally leaves them happy with the situation once the deal’s concluded. He avoids one of the more dangerous things a ruler can experience: RESENTMENT. Threats usually come from someone bearing a grudge.
@Random22, assassinations are expensive and risky. The church attacking a secular ruler like that is generally a bad idea. Especially when the alternative is cheaper and often more effective: excommunication (or fatwa or whatever word you want to use for “Priest claims that G-d doesn’t like this person and you should all throw stuff at them”). And Teresa clearly did ask what would happen to it – he’s altering their deal, altering their agreement. What she signed isn’t a written account of their deal, but the divorce papers that she attempted to tear to express her anger at his doublecross.
@Uhl, no one’s denying that Teresa isn’t perfect. Typh isn’t exactly perfect either – he’s a sexist jerk with violent antisocial tendencies, and has had to learn to grow and overcome indoctrination into those beliefs by his abusive bully of a father. Teresa has also come to recognize that Typh is neither stupid nor ignorant, and that she seriously erred by not empathizing with someone suffering from being stuck in the wrong body. That’s why Teresa left a farewell gift to Typh – my bet is that it’s a pardon for her “crimes,” or even a sanctification, or something like that.
Theresa failed to give enough information. Then she tried to excuse herself, even though her mistake almost cost Peonie’s life.
What she did not do was actively lie to Urtica.
Urtica lied to Teresa even before the confrontation with Coriander. Then he lied again, to trick her into signing the contract.
Even if he’s right about the arrangement benefiting the Church (which might not be true), it was still fraud; and he did this right after he blamed her for not being diligent enough in providing information.
Teresa failed, then made excuses, then she overreacted. But Urtica is a deceiver and con artist.
Urtica is the epitome of the invincible boring hero trope. Everything just automatically fails against him, nothing can ever be done to give him his comeuppance because he’ll just deflect it or some other bullshit. Glad he’s not the main character at least, because he’s the most boring character in the series. Kinda hope we see more Faden, at least he was entertaining.
“You’re clearly not holding any runes”.
This just after she noticed the heavy scarring. At least some of that could be deliberate, ritual scarification from a tradition Teresa’s not familiar with; Urtica is determined enough to get such a thing done, just to have an ace in the hole against enemy casters.
Also, remember that the juggernaut guards have special protection from magic, and one of them mentioned having unsightly scars. A more comprehensive ritual scarification than Urtica got for himself, perhaps?
Of course I can be completely wrong and the mysterious song really is the source of Urtica’s protection, but I doubt Teresa is all-knowing on the subject of magic.
Teresa is indeed naive. She knew about the duelling song but discarded it as a possibility, then defended that in an entirely subjective way. Because she thought it a stupid alternative, no one else should think of using it.
Urtica is Urtica. There are ample reasons why I used to call him King Machiavelli. To me, he compares unfavourably to Lord Vetinari; Vetinari is hyper-competent and can be ruthless, but he believes in freedom (and its consequences), and acts only when necessary. So long as people don’t break the game board, they are free to play the game — and so is he.
Urtica believes in full control. By Urtica.
@Ben – I’ve not forgiven Urtica anything – both of my recent posts have only been to point out to those claiming that Theresa did nothing wrong are grossly myopic.
But’s let’s dive into some of your claims.
1. “The second one is easily explained by the fact that she is angry. I tend to get defensive when I am angry, and I bet Theresa does to.” Theresa is the head of a powerful organization, and has to work diplomatically with church leaders, diplomats and kings. Tell me: something happens at work and you’re at fault. Your boss calls you on it, but you’re angry and decide to start assigning blame to anyone but yourself. Do you expect that your boss will decide to back down and just forget about it?
Now, Urtica isn’t her boss here. But I don’t see her behavior as being conducive towards him not letting her blunder into one of his magnificent bastard traps.
2. “Also, be honest. Do you really think that Urtica would have given up control if Theresa had apologized?” Why should Urtica have given up on the idea of control so quickly? If she’d apologized and admitted her fault, there might have been a discussion on how to monitor the church against future fanaticism. Instead, we get to see Urtica engage in dickery while Theresa comes off as being fairly power-hungry (not even a day in power and already she’s unwilling to let anyone keep an eye on her). I maintain that a positive outcome would have at least been possible (but perhaps not probable) if she had offered a mea culpa.
Instead, he gained control by her acting in anger and stepping into another dickish trap. A trap, incidentally, that why it was wrong of her it to withhold information from him while planning – he’s clearly the superior strategist.
I’ll grant you point number one, but as for point number 2. He ALREADY had control she she signed the papers. He could have easily done it whether or not she had withheld information.
? Not sure I follow. Before he signed the papers, my understanding was that he controlled the book but didn’t yet have his watcher in place with the church. Or are you referring to a different piece of control?
@Tahnru You said that Urtica had gained control because Theresa had acted in anger. My counterpoint was Theresa had signed the papers BEFORE Urtica sprung the trap that angered her to begin with.
Doubt she has figured out how deep of a lake she is in, and just how small of a fish she is. At least when compared to the King.
Trying to be more clever than him, anyone would end up looking like aan a!s in the end.
@Drace Does the contract depend on having the official head of Rem sign it? Has Theresa been sworn in yet? Because if not all she has to do is step down before she gets sworn in while simultaneously telling everyone why she has to do so. Such a move would simultaneously render the contract null and void while at the same time PUBLICALLY exposing Urtica for how manipulative he his even with his allies.
I could be wrong but I expect this is where the story will go. I believe Theresa’s primary motive was to rid the Church Of Rem of the taint of Coriander and his Legion of pedophiles. If my INTERPRETATION of her character is correct, while she would certainly want be willing to lead the Church given the opportunity, if forced to choose I believe she would put the well being of the church before her personal power of feelings. Whether this is true or not we will have to wait and see.
What’s more if this ends up happening, the reason it happened is that Urtica was overconfident and revealed his hand too soon. If he had waited until after the swearing in he could have gotten away with it.
P.S. I just checked the last couple of pages it seems that while the vote is clear she has PROBABLY not been sworn in yet. After all the church probably needs the divorce to be official before Theresa can take over. I’d say Theresa present political status is akin to a presidential candidate who won the current election but is waiting for the former president to finish his turn in office. In other words, that maybe be headed to the ig seat but they have no actually power yet.
Just a note: Theresa and Urtica are NOT equal. Urtica is the king, and he has planned and plotted and outsmarted his opponents for years and years to make sure the kingdom doesn’t fall apart – just at the beginning of the story line we saw some of his guests plotting murder. And yes, the ends justify the means to him, I grant you that.
Theresa, on the other hand, was just a simple priest, or whatever they are called, at odds with the church head. One, mind you, that did not act with any particular grace: Went all giddy about shoes and stuff the moment she got turned, kept antagonising Tiff and mocking her pain, flirting like a bar fly and trying to steal Tiff’s love interest just for the heck of it etc etc. And it was this stupid behaviour that made the church go after her. And it was Urtica who saved her. She still owes him big time for that one. And while she behaved a bit differently during the plotting, all her flirtiness towards a cold king as she entered the room was hardly the behaviour you would expect from the church head.
So their little arrangement was meant to overthrow the church’s corrupt head, restoring Theresa’s honour in the process. And she gained immensely from all this, While Urtica basically did it to fight corruption. His newest trick was to ensure things stay right in the future. And he only tricked her into signing because she would never accept it, despite being for the best. Is he evil for doing what is best for his kingdom instead of what is best for her ego and personal plans? I don’t think so – especially since her plans would have only included counting a cell’s stones till her execution if it wasn’t for him.
And while it’s more kingdom business for him, he still tried to explain it wasn’t personal, give her something in return to take to the church, even warn her while she was attacking him. Too much effort from a King towards a subject – even if we assume priests are not considered his subjects. 😛
@Ben – I see what you mean. I had to go back in the pages and change my recollection of the sequence of events. I had thought she signed it just a bit later, after he told her he was keeping the book. I was wrong there.
The sequence change alters the level of dickery I perceive in his trap (ups it quite a bit). It also seems like a bit of a gamble on his part. What if she had noticed the fine-print in the divorce before signing?
However, the only alternative that I’ve been able to come up with for this situation isn’t that great either. Let’s say he had discussed up front the permanent envoy placed in the church for future protection. This has the upside of giving her some time to digest the idea (and hopefully agree to it). Carries the downside of tipping his hand to that intention, in case she does have power-hungry tendencies and refuses. Also doesn’t avoid the fight over her planning error (regarding the song of swords) and his subsequent need to keep the book for the criminal trial.
I think that the alternative could have also easily led to her attacking a King.
After thinking about this a bit more, it is a significant failing by King Plans-for-Everything to not discuss the aftermath (envoy placement) with Theresa while they were planning things up front (when they were working out how to depose Coriander).
@Tahnru To be honest my biggest problem with this whole affair is how it ties Church and state together. Urtica himself mentioned how dangerous that can be, yet he went ahead and did just that.
@Ben: Nah, he just made sure he can directly appoint agents (assassins) in the church of Rem. The church agents in the Alliance, he’ll probably get under control in no time flat.
@Gallstone That essentially gives the state a foothold in church and vice versa. While they are fighting over who holds the reigns things might be ok, but once one takes control it is a bad idea. Separation of church and state means that the state has no religious authority, and church has no secular authority. This gives each a piece of the other. How a big a piece we won’t know know till we get more details, but neither side should have any piece.
Theresa, PLEASE. Stop while you’re ahead.
Oy. She’s turning into an A!s!
There, I guess we just saw what happened when you attack the king with magic. Now let’s see if she’s smart enough to stop now or is she still going to let her temper still get the better of her.
Tee hee, Terry looks so cute with donkey ears! I bet they’re all soft and plush and she’ll learn to love it when her lovers pet them!
Plus, she’ll flick them to indicate annoyance, which will be supercute when she’s mad!
You wanted to be a girl, Terry? You get to be a girl, with all the emotional reflexes that go with it.
Don’t we know someone else who learned that? Why, yes, I believe we do–and it was contagious, which is how you caught it, and that person learned that you had to be careful fighting against it, or it would put you in a brass bikini. If you were lucky.
It’s really hard to fight wearing a wedding dress. Or corset. This is going to be funny.
I believe she was trying to turn the king into an a!s and the spell was reflected onto her.
Oruncrest: She won’t stop.
FUD rune?
@CapNerd:
The one you can use to stay awake and healthy for weeks, while permanently weaving songs.
Those ears are looking far more fitting on you than Urtica, dear. You’re earning them with each panel the story moves forward.
Urtica, is sighing and picking up his towel. The guards should be here any second.
This world has to have rules against magical assault, and special rules against magically assaulting the King.
No Church for you, Teresa.
Her remarks in the final panel might seem to imply that there eas a bit beyond the obvious in Teresa’s motivations, too.
@Vorlonaget: I fail to see how it’s “fitting”, Urticaria was the one that lied and tricked her so he’s still the a!s here.
Anyway, it seems like the spell also changed the color of her eyebrows.
Vorlonagent : “Those ears are looking far more fitting on you than Urtica, dear. You’re earning them with each panel the story moves forward.”
That does seem to be way to true. Urtica is an Evil Monarch, but he is a competent evil monarch who understands the politics and intrigue required to get things done, and is not blinded by the short term. He has simply been acting to ensure their goals are meet and stay met. This means planning for every contingency he can foresee, even if he hopes it never comes up.
Teressa is throwing a hissy fit because things are not going 100% the way she wants them to, and she has to make a sacrifice to prevent the same situation from occurring again in the future.
The odds are there are only a couple people if any he trusts completely and it would take years to earn his trust. So even hiding a spell from her makes perfect sense she is proving how right he was in doing so.
@50srefuge: What do you mean by “emotional reflex”? More importantly, what happened with Typhan-Knee’s spell didn’t have to do with “emotional reflex”.
And Teresa didn’t “want to be ” a woman, she always was. It’s just that now her outward appearance matches her gender identity.
@sjmcc13: Now you are just being bias and kinda sexist. Teresa is justifiably upset because Urtica tricked and lied to her.
All this proves is that she should have never trusted him.
@Jake : While Teresa should have known to not fully trust Urtica, she should have known enough to be aware he will plot and scheme to ensure he wins, and take every step to protect himself. She is over reacting to him simply acting to protect their actions since the church has just proven that it needs some level of oversight, and she is rejecting that and the carrot he was offering to make it easier for the church to accept the necessary oversight.
Also, there is no sexism here, at least not on my part. Remember the curse shapes you to your ideal image of a woman, so even if she is acting this way due to being a woman, it is more likely because that is how she pictures women in her head, and if not it would be because she has not had time to adapt to the change in her bodies hormones from the gender swap which could rightly cause someone to have issues for a while as they adapt to the huge change in brain chemistry (this might take years to fully adapt to)
Of course at no point did I say or imply she is acting this way because she is a woman, and I have met enough man children and horrible losers out there to know that this type of behaviour is NOT a female trait, but more often a sign of either a lack of maturity, or being spoiled and given everything you want with at no real cost. Trust me there are more then enough stories out there of men reacting just as bad or worse to things not going their way,
@sjmcc13: Except again, Urtica lied to and manipulated Teresa, she has every right to be angry, this isn’t what they had previously agreed to. It’s not a matter of not getting what you want, but a matter of being lied to and the fact that Urtica is overstepping.
My problem is with people saying Teresa is wrong for being angry, when she has every right to be. She held up her end of the bargain.
Also, her spell was just to give Urtica donkey ears, so she’s being pretty tame here.
Well…he tried to stop her.
And…it’s not actually a bad deal for the Church. They could use some supervision, and they get a seat on…something. Plus, that representative could be a valuable ally.
…and there’s no reason that Teresa or a scribe couldn’t review the book without removing it in order to get the names they need.
So, Teresa could have just worked with the situation Urtica set up. Sure, she got manipulated into it, but it works out well.
Also…always read legal documents before you sign them.
He is not overstepping, he is doing his F-ING job and looking after the long term interest of his nation. there is a huge difference.
Also, the only lies/deceptions he told her are not disclosing his countermeasure in case she turned on him, which she is only finding out about because she turned on him, and that since the church needs oversight to make sure this situation never happens again he is going to make sure it gets it. On both cases, if she had kept a functioning head on her shoulders, instead of getting lost in her new position and power, she would see are necessary steps to prevent this in from re-occurring, and she should very well know Urtica well enough to know that he is going to make sure the problem does not re-occur.
The church screwed up, and there has to be a price to pay for that screw up, so far Urtica is enacting the minimum reasonable price (an outside agent ensuring that the corruption is removed, because the church can not be trusted to remove it themselves) and has not said or done anything, he even offered something to lighten the blow this will cause which teresa rejected before he even finished talking.
Teresa is throwing a hissy fit, and getting violent because she does not have the maturity needed to look at the long term picture, and make sure the problem stays resolved.
She wants to be the head of a large and powerful political organization, and that requires you to be able to control your emotions and look at the big picture, Urtica is doing so she is not. Which is why she is in the wrong, she has a right to be upset, but instead she is over reacting and making things worse, both of which are things her new position means she can not do, she needs control.
Does anyone else think this tying together of church and state to be a potentially very bad idea?
@sjmcc13 ‘ Urtica is an Evil Monarch’
He always struck me as more Neutral than Evil. Yes, he does nasty things to people who oppose him, but he does seem to care for his kingdom more than his position. (And he certainly cares for his daughter, although evil people can do that as well….)
I’ve been reading this comic for a really long time, since back when Drowemos was drawing it. I’ve never really commented on it publicly, to be honest, though I did exchange a few emails with Drowemos. It’s always been a fun read, and a guilty pleasure.
That said, as of late, I really feel like the writing has gotten… I don’t want to say bad, but stale. I can’t be the only person who is SO TIRED of Urtica ALWAYS coming out on top, no matter what. Like, I get it, he’s intelligent and capable, that’s great. Can we ever see a failure of his? Can he, once, be caught unaware? I’m just so aggravated that everything is constantly according to his plan.
Competent characters can be interesting, but Urtica is very quickly ascending to become a Marty Stu, which is just… Aggravating. Exiern is better than this.
@Ark You have a point. Lelouch of Code Geas is competence incarnate. Yet he CONSTANTLY gets screwed up by unpredictable elements.
@Ark eh, these events could still end badly for him he cant fall too far ofcourse. Assuming Peonie will keep appearing as a party member, he has to either remain in power so she wont assume the throne and be locked in the alliance, or the kingdom has to fall completely. On a side note, I never got why people need to use Marty Stue, Mary Sue as a trope of too perfect characters doesnt have to be gendered just because the trope name is litterally speaking so.
@sjmcc13 Urtica is indeed doing what he feels is his job… however, Teresa is also trying to do HER job. She’s loyal to the church, to the religion that she has literally devoted her life to. She collaborated with him for mutual gain – i.e. to take down the incredibly corrupt and vile leadership of said church. However… he lied to her. He’s doing the Darth Vader thing and altering the deal, and expecting her to smile and take it.
So far she’s only done one thing in this whole setup that can be seen as wrong, and that was not telling Urtica about the possibility of a duel. She could be excused for that on account of that particular legal option not having been exercised in centuries, and being seen as an admission of guilt just by invoking it. She truly did not think the guy was going to be that vile (notice how she wasn’t even certain of what to do when the bastard then tried to simply WALK AWAY after losing the duel, before Typh stopped him so effectively). It’s quite possible that the only reason Urtica mentioned it was to justify his betrayal. Which it is: breach of oral contract, breaking of their sworn agreement. Betrayal of trust.
By contrast, Urtica is apparently responsible for the song that Teresa has been countering for so long that she’s literally been unable to sleep (no wonder her thinking isn’t at its best). He’s breaking their agreement. And he’s making a VERY blatant power grab, akin to Henry VIII declaring himself head of the Church of England.
Hell yes, Teresa’s angry. The guy she allied with not only betrayed her trust, but he’s apparently been playing her from the very start. She’s now acting to defend her religious organization from this very blatant secular power grab – and a casual review of history will showcase so very many examples of just how badly things go when secular governments claim religious authority.
Question. What happens if Theresa decides to resign from becoming church head before her appointment becomes official? Would the agreement with Urtica dissapear as well? If so Urtica could both loise an ally, gain an enemy, and not get the influence in the church he wants.
@Archeone Thank you. Many people tend to forget that mideval rotalty tended to be in FAVOR of union between church and state they just felt that THEY should hold the reigns.
@Jake & @Archone – I wanted to add my two cents. Theresa did two things, the second FAR more difficult to excuse than the first.
1. Did not give Urtica complete information as to Coriander’s options, putting Peonie at risk and seriously tainting the trial and proceeding that removed Coriander. In short, she nearly shot the entire plan straight to s!!t, either by oversight or because she didn’t trust Urtica enough to share.
2. The much worse option – when confronted on #1, rather than apologize she started in on how her decisions were justified and how it wasn’t her fault that Coriander did the thing that she knew about but chose to discount out of hand.
@Tahnru The second one is easily explained by the fact that she is angry. I tend to get defensive when I am angry, and I bet Theresa does to. Also, be honest. Do you really think that Urtica would have given up control if Theresa had apologized? Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying Theresa didn’t do something wrong. I am saying that you are allto willing to forgive Urtica his transgressions, but you are not willing to forgive Theresa hers. I could be wrong but I am willing to bet that this is because Urtica is such a magnificent Bastard he is fun to watch. I admit I am guilty of this myself. Back when everyone he played were a!!!!!!s who got what they deserved it was easy to overlook how dangerous his methods were.
Okay, I remember Teresa mentioning the background song, but when does she say that it is absent from Peonie’s room, and when was she shown the Fud rune, and how does it count as “amused guilt”?
With such a wall of text, and not a hint of flashback, I’m having trouble following.
On another note: I like the new art.
I said it before, I’ll say it again, in this world if Urtica could be kerbstomped by magic then someone would already have done it. The Exiern world is lousy with magic users and magical artifacts. You can’t tell me that nobody in the history of the church would not have already tried this. Churches always try to accrue temporal power to go along with spiritual. It would make no sense for what Teresa is trying here to succeed. Its direct frontal attack, the first thing any competent monarch prepares for.
Also Teresa could have prevented all this very simply. She could have asked what would happen to the book in the first place when this was all over instead of assuming she’d get to take it. And she really should have read the EULA Urtica put in front of her before signing. Never blindly sign documents without reading them. If she couldn’t think to do either then maybe she is not really fit for high office. Especially if her response to being out-maneuvered is simply to lose her temper and have a tantrum.
@ Ark, he was taken by surprise and decidedly NOT PLEASED when Coriander played the “Duet of Blades” card.
As for those defending Theresa, even as Brother Thomas, he’s always been a bit of a racist jerk who thinks that anyone not a devout follower of the Church of Rem is, at best, a stupid, ignorant fool deserving of pity.
As Theresa, she seriously underestimated both Urtica, and his righteous rage in being denied critical need-to-know information regarding Coriander’s options. And now, she’s guilty of magically assaulting him. Getting her ears turned to donkey ears would be getting off lightly.
Personally I think BOTH Theresa AND Urtica need to get taken down a peg. It seems to me (I could be wrong) that a lot of the people pointing out Theresa’s fault are also all to ready to overlook the faults of Urtica.
By the way, how many readers are familiar with the Discworld series? Because I’m thinking of Lord Vetinari.
More precisely, I’m thinking of how Vetinari doesn’t avoid assassination by being unkillable, but rather by being so vital that the Assassins Guild refuses to take contracts out against him (or Commander Vimes, and for the same reason) and Unseen University’s archchancellor regards him with the respect due an equal. He might bully people at times while dealing with them, but he generally leaves them happy with the situation once the deal’s concluded. He avoids one of the more dangerous things a ruler can experience: RESENTMENT. Threats usually come from someone bearing a grudge.
@Random22, assassinations are expensive and risky. The church attacking a secular ruler like that is generally a bad idea. Especially when the alternative is cheaper and often more effective: excommunication (or fatwa or whatever word you want to use for “Priest claims that G-d doesn’t like this person and you should all throw stuff at them”). And Teresa clearly did ask what would happen to it – he’s altering their deal, altering their agreement. What she signed isn’t a written account of their deal, but the divorce papers that she attempted to tear to express her anger at his doublecross.
@Uhl, no one’s denying that Teresa isn’t perfect. Typh isn’t exactly perfect either – he’s a sexist jerk with violent antisocial tendencies, and has had to learn to grow and overcome indoctrination into those beliefs by his abusive bully of a father. Teresa has also come to recognize that Typh is neither stupid nor ignorant, and that she seriously erred by not empathizing with someone suffering from being stuck in the wrong body. That’s why Teresa left a farewell gift to Typh – my bet is that it’s a pardon for her “crimes,” or even a sanctification, or something like that.
Theresa failed to give enough information. Then she tried to excuse herself, even though her mistake almost cost Peonie’s life.
What she did not do was actively lie to Urtica.
Urtica lied to Teresa even before the confrontation with Coriander. Then he lied again, to trick her into signing the contract.
Even if he’s right about the arrangement benefiting the Church (which might not be true), it was still fraud; and he did this right after he blamed her for not being diligent enough in providing information.
Teresa failed, then made excuses, then she overreacted. But Urtica is a deceiver and con artist.
Cerulean Lion, I could kiss you.
who’s to say that they both aren’t being played to stop two powerful forces from allying
OH THANK GOD! It’s just ears! I was getting worried there.
I think that bitch is about to literally become a bitch
Urtica is the epitome of the invincible boring hero trope. Everything just automatically fails against him, nothing can ever be done to give him his comeuppance because he’ll just deflect it or some other bullshit. Glad he’s not the main character at least, because he’s the most boring character in the series. Kinda hope we see more Faden, at least he was entertaining.
@rphb: I think if she doesn’t attack again, she’ll likely get away with no more than the ears.
Looks like someone’s been at the classics—Apuleius’s “Golden A!s.” The King was supposed to have the a!s’s ears.
Urtica comes across as a nicer version of Lord Vetinari right down to the world would likely go to hell in a hand basket if something happened to him.
“You’re clearly not holding any runes”.
This just after she noticed the heavy scarring. At least some of that could be deliberate, ritual scarification from a tradition Teresa’s not familiar with; Urtica is determined enough to get such a thing done, just to have an ace in the hole against enemy casters.
Also, remember that the juggernaut guards have special protection from magic, and one of them mentioned having unsightly scars. A more comprehensive ritual scarification than Urtica got for himself, perhaps?
Of course I can be completely wrong and the mysterious song really is the source of Urtica’s protection, but I doubt Teresa is all-knowing on the subject of magic.
Teresa is indeed naive. She knew about the duelling song but discarded it as a possibility, then defended that in an entirely subjective way. Because she thought it a stupid alternative, no one else should think of using it.
Urtica is Urtica. There are ample reasons why I used to call him King Machiavelli. To me, he compares unfavourably to Lord Vetinari; Vetinari is hyper-competent and can be ruthless, but he believes in freedom (and its consequences), and acts only when necessary. So long as people don’t break the game board, they are free to play the game — and so is he.
Urtica believes in full control. By Urtica.
@Bunnygurl Urtica is the epitome of the invincible Villain….And Teresa making a A!s out of her self
@Ben – I’ve not forgiven Urtica anything – both of my recent posts have only been to point out to those claiming that Theresa did nothing wrong are grossly myopic.
But’s let’s dive into some of your claims.
1. “The second one is easily explained by the fact that she is angry. I tend to get defensive when I am angry, and I bet Theresa does to.” Theresa is the head of a powerful organization, and has to work diplomatically with church leaders, diplomats and kings. Tell me: something happens at work and you’re at fault. Your boss calls you on it, but you’re angry and decide to start assigning blame to anyone but yourself. Do you expect that your boss will decide to back down and just forget about it?
Now, Urtica isn’t her boss here. But I don’t see her behavior as being conducive towards him not letting her blunder into one of his magnificent bastard traps.
2. “Also, be honest. Do you really think that Urtica would have given up control if Theresa had apologized?” Why should Urtica have given up on the idea of control so quickly? If she’d apologized and admitted her fault, there might have been a discussion on how to monitor the church against future fanaticism. Instead, we get to see Urtica engage in dickery while Theresa comes off as being fairly power-hungry (not even a day in power and already she’s unwilling to let anyone keep an eye on her). I maintain that a positive outcome would have at least been possible (but perhaps not probable) if she had offered a mea culpa.
Instead, he gained control by her acting in anger and stepping into another dickish trap. A trap, incidentally, that why it was wrong of her it to withhold information from him while planning – he’s clearly the superior strategist.
I’ll grant you point number one, but as for point number 2. He ALREADY had control she she signed the papers. He could have easily done it whether or not she had withheld information.
^”WHEN she” NOT “SHE she”
? Not sure I follow. Before he signed the papers, my understanding was that he controlled the book but didn’t yet have his watcher in place with the church. Or are you referring to a different piece of control?
“And the reeds whispered, ‘Midas has donkey’s ears Midas has donkey’s ears…”
@Tahnru You said that Urtica had gained control because Theresa had acted in anger. My counterpoint was Theresa had signed the papers BEFORE Urtica sprung the trap that angered her to begin with.
Doubt she has figured out how deep of a lake she is in, and just how small of a fish she is. At least when compared to the King.
Trying to be more clever than him, anyone would end up looking like aan a!s in the end.
@Drace Does the contract depend on having the official head of Rem sign it? Has Theresa been sworn in yet? Because if not all she has to do is step down before she gets sworn in while simultaneously telling everyone why she has to do so. Such a move would simultaneously render the contract null and void while at the same time PUBLICALLY exposing Urtica for how manipulative he his even with his allies.
I could be wrong but I expect this is where the story will go. I believe Theresa’s primary motive was to rid the Church Of Rem of the taint of Coriander and his Legion of pedophiles. If my INTERPRETATION of her character is correct, while she would certainly want be willing to lead the Church given the opportunity, if forced to choose I believe she would put the well being of the church before her personal power of feelings. Whether this is true or not we will have to wait and see.
What’s more if this ends up happening, the reason it happened is that Urtica was overconfident and revealed his hand too soon. If he had waited until after the swearing in he could have gotten away with it.
P.S. I just checked the last couple of pages it seems that while the vote is clear she has PROBABLY not been sworn in yet. After all the church probably needs the divorce to be official before Theresa can take over. I’d say Theresa present political status is akin to a presidential candidate who won the current election but is waiting for the former president to finish his turn in office. In other words, that maybe be headed to the ig seat but they have no actually power yet.
Just a note: Theresa and Urtica are NOT equal. Urtica is the king, and he has planned and plotted and outsmarted his opponents for years and years to make sure the kingdom doesn’t fall apart – just at the beginning of the story line we saw some of his guests plotting murder. And yes, the ends justify the means to him, I grant you that.
Theresa, on the other hand, was just a simple priest, or whatever they are called, at odds with the church head. One, mind you, that did not act with any particular grace: Went all giddy about shoes and stuff the moment she got turned, kept antagonising Tiff and mocking her pain, flirting like a bar fly and trying to steal Tiff’s love interest just for the heck of it etc etc. And it was this stupid behaviour that made the church go after her. And it was Urtica who saved her. She still owes him big time for that one. And while she behaved a bit differently during the plotting, all her flirtiness towards a cold king as she entered the room was hardly the behaviour you would expect from the church head.
So their little arrangement was meant to overthrow the church’s corrupt head, restoring Theresa’s honour in the process. And she gained immensely from all this, While Urtica basically did it to fight corruption. His newest trick was to ensure things stay right in the future. And he only tricked her into signing because she would never accept it, despite being for the best. Is he evil for doing what is best for his kingdom instead of what is best for her ego and personal plans? I don’t think so – especially since her plans would have only included counting a cell’s stones till her execution if it wasn’t for him.
And while it’s more kingdom business for him, he still tried to explain it wasn’t personal, give her something in return to take to the church, even warn her while she was attacking him. Too much effort from a King towards a subject – even if we assume priests are not considered his subjects. 😛
@Ben – I see what you mean. I had to go back in the pages and change my recollection of the sequence of events. I had thought she signed it just a bit later, after he told her he was keeping the book. I was wrong there.
The sequence change alters the level of dickery I perceive in his trap (ups it quite a bit). It also seems like a bit of a gamble on his part. What if she had noticed the fine-print in the divorce before signing?
However, the only alternative that I’ve been able to come up with for this situation isn’t that great either. Let’s say he had discussed up front the permanent envoy placed in the church for future protection. This has the upside of giving her some time to digest the idea (and hopefully agree to it). Carries the downside of tipping his hand to that intention, in case she does have power-hungry tendencies and refuses. Also doesn’t avoid the fight over her planning error (regarding the song of swords) and his subsequent need to keep the book for the criminal trial.
I think that the alternative could have also easily led to her attacking a King.
After thinking about this a bit more, it is a significant failing by King Plans-for-Everything to not discuss the aftermath (envoy placement) with Theresa while they were planning things up front (when they were working out how to depose Coriander).
@Tahnru To be honest my biggest problem with this whole affair is how it ties Church and state together. Urtica himself mentioned how dangerous that can be, yet he went ahead and did just that.
@Ben: Nah, he just made sure he can directly appoint agents (assassins) in the church of Rem. The church agents in the Alliance, he’ll probably get under control in no time flat.
@Gallstone That essentially gives the state a foothold in church and vice versa. While they are fighting over who holds the reigns things might be ok, but once one takes control it is a bad idea. Separation of church and state means that the state has no religious authority, and church has no secular authority. This gives each a piece of the other. How a big a piece we won’t know know till we get more details, but neither side should have any piece.
She should stop visiting Pleasure Island
They’ve already explained that’s NOT the kind of pleasure service they have