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Starting February 1st ALL new Exiern pages will post ONLY to Exiern.com and Our Patreon. Please read and support us there!
Swords, Sorcery, And Then Some!
Howdy, New Readers! Thanks for reading Exiern!
Written by Scott T. Hicken with art by Antipus, the comic updates Mondays. Please check out the Archive to enjoy the earlier adventures of Typh and Peonie!
Exiern contains mature themes and is best for readers 18+.
I think it has to do with Teresa obviously having been gay beforehand as well, or more likely trans, though I don’t think Typh realizes that. And she doesn’t understand how Teresa can’t just accept that rather then be happy in this form.
I mean I perfectly understand Teresa being happy how she is now, but I don’t think Typh fully grasps it considering his feelings.
Are we currently getting 2 strips a week or 2 strips fortnightly alternating with 1 strip fortnightly instead of just 1 strip a week every week (which is what I thought we were getting, probably erroneously in retrospect).
I am not sure wheter Teresa is still that braindead…
…or if she is actually trying to get Typh to punch her to make certain she won’t go for Corriander.
I really wish that comment systems wouldn’t put posts into moderation for containing links to the comic being commented on.
Without links, then:
Hm, quick archive trawl for what Typh’s going on about.
All I can see is:
1. Terry is pretty obnoxious to pretty much everyone right after she changed.
2. Terry tried to put the moves on Denver. [/2010/03/11/nosuchthing/]
3. Terry was rather dismissive of Northern Barbarians, to say the least.
4. Typh resents Terry for indulging her female form.
5. And, yes, Typh thought Terry was a pervert, who as a male priest molested altar boys. [/2010/07/01/exiern-2010-06-051-jweb/]
It’s clear that Terry took that last point as a mortal insult. There’s mutual distaste.
Of those five, I think Typh still holds onto the one about Terry wanting to remain a woman, but why she takes it so personally is not clear to me.
Thanks Scott (It was a nice unexpected bonus as I wasn’t expecting anything until next week). I was also wondering if it was worth getting the old http://darkreflections.exiern.com/ link to go to the first of the archive pages as it currently just seems to go nowhere.
I just ask because that’s the link on the top webcomics page if you want to see it. I know you’re not pursuing needing votes from there but just for fun, I’m seeing how high I can get Dark Reflections on my one vote a day (I’ve already helped with one other mystery person to get it raised over 500 places and we’re about to crack the Top 1000).
I always felt that Angel the series always got overshadowed by it’s parent show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is a shame because it was at least as good on its own merit, if not better. So I can sympathise with Dark Reflections and I’m just doing my small bit to get it a bit more time in the sun as well. 🙂
There’s also the whole extreme racism thing about considering northerners to be essentially subhuman morons beneath contempt, and rubbing Tiff’s face in the fact of the church’s mostly successful genocidal war against the barbarian tribes. Terry well and truly doesn’t think Tiff smart enough to be worth taking seriously, and considers herself blatantly superior in essentially every way.
She’s as bigoted as anyone we’ve seen in this world, even if she has good intentions and redeeming qualities. Urtica and/or Peonie need to at least try to correct Terry’s attitude, though.
@RandomSpectator:
That makes a lot of sense. The dig about reading feeds into that.
Typh makes a point of saying that Terry “should have learned a lesson along with me,” suggesting that she herself learned a lesson–and you know, I think Typh learned that her own Northern tribe was not as barbaric as even she thought.
Of course, this still seems a distraction from the book issue.
The fact that Teresa not only started this conflict, but also worsened it with her explanations is precisely why this exchange is even happening, and why the book is not the focus at the moment. I put no blame on Tiff for seemingly ‘prioritizing’ her issues with Teresa here. She was merely responding to those digs against her.
And I would have to say one of the big issues Teresa has is her views on Northerners, not the fact Teresa is a woman.
Here’s a question I have for everyone since I’m new here, I just wanted to see how I’m doing in the interpretation side of things. I especially thought it was appropriate to ask now since such things as ‘former nomenclature’ (a certain character’s past) was brought up. What’s the best way to refer to our transformed characters? (Sorry for the verbose spiel to follow).
In our world, since almost every individual has the same gender from birth to death, you always refer to any time and event they’re involved in during their life history by that gender (as with anything involving people in real life, there’s always at least a few exceptions though).
However, in Exiern the impression I get from the characters themselves (as well as the reader comments), almost always people are referred to as they were at that given time.
For example, from the time of transformation Tiffany’s mostly been called … well Tiffany (until very recently) and referred to with female pronouns such as she and her but anything referring to before that event with he and him and by the name Typhan-Knee.
I’m guessing this is would have to be acceptable because there’s so many possibilities unlike our world and it can be impossible to know which one is applicable.
What I mean is, in this world you could be anything on a spectrum from assigned one way at birth and consciously aware that you want to be the other way and hence seek out means to achieve that, assigned one way and only subconsciously wanting to be the other at the time of (I’d imagine accidental or enforced change) or fine with assignment from birth (and then accidental or enforced change).
However if it’s the last of these, it could ultimately end up running in a few directions, namely a) actively wanting to change back and pursuing that as quickly as possible, b) wanting to change back but not in a rush c) ambivalent as in it’s happened and will revert if the opportunity presents itself but won’t expend excessive effort to do so or even d) wouldn’t have changed if it hadn’t happened by accident or forced but ends up finding they prefer it and deciding not to try and change back even if the opportunity presents itself. To confuse the issue further, it wouldn’t surprise me if people move between different points on this spectrum over the course of their lives too.
In the case of our lead character, I was thinking that it’s also potentially difficult to tell. Early on, the impression I got was maybe it was something the character may have subconsciously wanted given a) the result of the spell even took the spellcaster by surprise and b) the spellbook simply listing three or more pages of HA when asked by Tiffany/Typhan-Knee as to how they could change back to how they were. (That’s what I thought the author might have been implying).
On the other hand, more recently, there’s been a few things that have suggested the exact opposite, such as what Tiffany/Typhan-Knee said to Denver after his major foot in mouth incident when he suggested problems had been solved because of the body change. That plus later on when Tiffany/Typhan-Knee visualised themselves as their former physical appearance in their mind’s eye when meeting their grandmother.
I guess what I’m saying in really long winded fashion is that to keep things simple, when the lead character was biologically female, I’d use the name Tiffany and the pronouns she and her and when the character was biologically male, I’d use the name Typhan-Knee and the pronouns he and him. It just seems it would get confusing as to when you might be referring to if you didn’t.
Another argument I’m putting forward as to use like that as being acceptable is that unlike our world (where it really wouldn’t and shouldn’t fly) is that people seem to be a lot more progressive in that department in Exiern.
No-one really seems to care when they find out. Denver only seemed annoyed he hadn’t been told, not about *what* he hadn’t been told. The King didn’t care in the case of either of his engagements, (though in both cases it seems it was mainly about political advantage so far).
The populace obviously knows the new queen’s past history and there’s no sign of problems either. Everything seems to be pointing to “Cool, there’s a party.” and “Will there be cake?”. Also, the characters themselves never seem to have shown any signs of caring whether they’re referred to with male or female pronouns or their new or old names. Even beforehand with the church, objections seemed to be not really to do with the transformation specifically but more to do with the conduct since the change wasn’t considered acceptable by the clergy – thought undignified I guess (though I haven’t read that short story “A Woman’s Place” which might contradict that, anyone know where I can find that?).
So what does everyone else think on the matter? Teresa so far seems easier to come to a conclusion (as far as I can tell, there really hasn’t been any ambiguity seen post transformation) but in Tiffany/Typhan-Knee’s case, not so much for me at least as I started off thinking one thing (a parallel to Teresa I guess) based on what I’d seen up to a point but then started to think maybe the opposite (based on what happened after that point).
John Oliver’s great and I’ve seen that clip. The weatherman in that somehow managed to completely by accident stumble on exactly the right answer in the end, didn’t he?
I guess to try and boil my question down to manageable bite sized chunks here though, in this world it’s potentially a lot harder because the characters themselves might not know. For example, for all I know if things had been different and Typhan-Knee never went to Asylum, would Typhan-Knee stayed in the same body or at some point come to a realisation and actively seek out the means to change. There’s nothing to completely contradict either of those possibilities yet I guess (You’d know though of course).
Using the knock on effect, if Typhan-Knee went on unchanged and especially never intersected with the clergy, would Thomas still be Thomas? Was it a case of taking advantage of a circumstance which if it hadn’t happened, that character would never actively have sought it out? Or not?
@Shan – you’ve actually started to stumble into what is the subject of a future planned arc, so I’m actually going to refrain from any answers for fear of spoiling that adventure!
Fair enough. In the same vein, a couple of questions I don’t want the answers to past the point of knowing that the subject’s still being thought about are a) What happened to the first (?) queen (Peonie’s mother) and b) there’s going to come a time when Typhan-Knee/Tiffany will want to take a relationship with someone beyond the point where you can keep unicorn privileges. The question is that, obviously they’re aware of that fact and what they’ll lose, so I guess there’s a chance we’ll have a page or two at least in future where they at least contemplate that dilemma?
a) I know what happened, and it will be revealed when it makes sense in the story, but I haven’t artificial decided to hold that off for any reason, b) I have plotted out such a relationship for Typh, and the question I think on is less what he will lose and more what would he gain?
As a matter of correct grammar, and as a courtesy to the vast majority of the people you meet who do not know you, you get the the pronouns appropriate for the sex you present as.
Tiffany presents as a female–has no choice, really. Ash Upton, victim of the Misfile, presents as female, as does Jeanie in I Dream of a Jeanie Bottle, Yuuki of Sparkling Generation Valkyrie Yuuki and the other Tiffany (aka Red) at the Jeanie spin-off The Melvin Chronicles. They all were originally male, and all claim, with varying degrees of stridency, to want to be males again.
All of them, however, are inescapably female, and female pronouns attach to all of them.
Scott, I eagerly await Typh’s romance–and I hope it’s with a man.
(I’ll note that El Goonish Shive characters have also explored gender-switching, but perhaps more than any other comic displays the attitude that our bodies are little more than meat suits, and that males and females are pretty much interchangeable. Except girls have boobs, squish squish squish.)
Honestly, I never really thought much and simply refer to both Teresa and Tiff as ‘she’, just ‘because’. o.O Really, it depends on the comic. In the case of El Goonish Shive, I end up referring to the characters by their regular genders regardless of which gender they’re currently at (as in Elliot is a ‘he’ despite the fact, asof now, he’s transformed into a girl). Yuuki I end up referring to him as a ‘she’. Ash, that one is interchangeable. So, yeah, the best answer I would give is ‘because’. :/
@ Nef – Not the TV show, it’s a webcomic called “I Dream of a Jeanie [sic] Bottle” where a guy named Jean finds a bottle and accidentally turns himself into what he thinks a genie should look like (he didn’t know it was a real genie bottle understandably). He happens to think a genie looks like what Barbara Eden did in a certain TV show of a similar name.
To complicate the discussion we’ve been having, in this case everyone who doesn’t know what happened thinks he’s female and as time passes, the longer he’s unable to fix the situation, it seems increasingly likely *she’s* going to accept things as they are. (It makes sense when you read it, it’s clear the character’s state of mind is changing over time. I guess the question is at what point exactly did the changeover happen and does it become retroactive as had this accident never happened, the character would never have gone down this path).
Look at the king’s expression. He’s just sitting back thinking, “Well, here it goes. Maybe I’ll end up getting married to a different woman, maybe not. Whatever. Least there’ll be cake.”
@50srefuge But if a person tells you their preferred pronouns, it would be impolite(Some would even say transphobic) to misgendere them.
Ash Upton is identifies as male, so he’s still “he” regardless of his current body and Typhan-Knee already stated that he prefers Typhan-Knee and not Tiffany.
As for romance for Typhan-Knee, we already know that he was a gay man before being transformed, so we already know that. That whomever fall for Typhan-Knee will probably need to be into pegging.
@ Jake, I know but that’s a fairly recent development as of this calendar year and only the king has been told that so far.
After thinking about it and reading everyone’s replies here as well as the past strips and comments, this is the approach I’m going with for the time being:
(TL;DR version. In webcomic instant transformation universes, unless the character specifically states otherwise, I’m going to use the names and pronouns applicable to the character during that time frame/at the time being referred to.)
In a general sense with these webcomic universes, I’m going to go with pronouns based on the presentation of the character at the time. The reason being that unlike our world, people can be transformed instantly; furthermore they can be completely involuntary changes too – but not necessarily. Furthermore it’s impossible without further information to differentiate people who’ve always wanted to change (hence been the same gender their entire lives) versus for want of a better word “opportunistic” who end up deciding over time to leave the change as it is and run with it.
At this point, I don’t think you can completely rule this out for Teresa as presumably she may have been able to have changed herself via magic for up to years beforehand if she wanted instead of only deciding to take advantage of an unforeseen accident (maybe we’ll find out next week). So based on which is applicable could determine which names and pronouns you’d use to refer to her past and unless stated otherwise, maybe it’s least confusing and most accurate to use what was current at the time being referred to.
In Typh’s case depending on how far through the story you’ve been, it could be fair to say that it could be hard to tell what Typh wanted. Earlier on, it would seem reasonable that Typh at least subconsciously wanted to be female based on the effects of the spell taking even the caster by surprise as well as the book’s reaction to asking about how to change back (three pages of HAHA etc). However, as you go further on it now seems that the situation might be the exact opposite and Typh wants to change back. Word of God seems to suggest that too but who knows, that could change as the author sees how the story evolves (and hence what the character wants as a result – for all we know the Typh may end up *not* changing back and that may not presently be known to the author right now either).
Since it can be impossible to know intent until specifically specified by the character due to the number of possibilities I actually think until a character says something, it’s just easiest to use pronouns referring to the state of the body at the time you’re talking about as the least confusing option. (For example Ash from Misfile is a particular and unique mix of a few different can of worms while a different character in seemingly the same situation would be different in other ways).
As I said before, it helps a great deal that people in this universe almost entirely don’t care. Denver and Typh’s grandmother only cared about Typh being honest, if things had been different, the king totally would have gone through with that marriage and even Typh’s brother was only treating his sibling the way he did for political reasons and as well as the fact he was absolutely terrified of Typh and that never changed even after Typh’s body did.
I figure in the next one to three strips we’re going to get more guidance on the specific ways to now address the characters in this situation and how Typh and Teresa are going to differ if the last panel on this page is anything to go by.
@Jake:
In real life, I’ll use whatever name or pronoun a person gives me. I see no reason to do otherwise.
When discussing fantasy comic characters, I’ll use whatever name seems right to me as I type–especially in regards to a comic like this one, where Typh’s sexuality is indeed fluid from moment to moment.
Please keep in mind, though, that if you look like a girl, especially to the degree Typh does, and I need to point you out to someone asking after ‘Typhan-Knee”, I’m going to point to you and say, “She’s over there.”
By default, you are the sex defined by your chromosomes and your physical appearance. Denying this is denying reality.
Even in Typh’s world, there are limits on wishing-makes-it-so, and as Typh has found, pressing too hard against that can have disastrous consequences.
===
When I said I wanted Typh’s romance to be with a man, I meant I wanted her to be a woman. It is a deep irony of her “curse”, or whatever it is, that it rests most lightly on her if she doesn’t fight against it too hard.
And in regards to the sexual act, the irony becomes so deep as to become something of a koan: Can Typh submit to a man, as a woman, and not lose her self-respect? Can she accept that doing so is part of a necessary symmetry of complementary strengths, that it does not mean that women are inferior? I encourage you to meditate, deeply, on the yin-yang symbol, and remember that its two components are defined first and foremost as male and female, and that both are necessary to maintain spiritual harmony and biological viability.
If the two halves become “equal”, mixing to a uniform gray, the mandala loses its identity, its coherency, and its power. It dies.
If, in the climactic moment, Typh attempts to take the male role, I suspect the curse will recoil on her in a way far worse than simply putting her in a metal bikini.
What I’m suggesting here is that Exiern is not a story about transexuality as such.
Rather, it’s about Typh learning that women are more than brood mares and house servants.
It’s not about Typh being a woman with male strength, it’s about Typh, with a barbarian male outlook, learning about female strength.
===
You know, it occurs to me that as a male, Typhan-Knee regarded sex as primarily a dominance maneuver. Given his low opinion of women, perhaps he lusted after men because, in part, raping another male was a greater conquest than raping a mere woman.
As a woman herself, now, can she abandon that model of sexual aggression? Can she accept taking the bottom position without perceiving herself as being raped?
In this context, Denver, who has a gentle nature but supernatural draconic strength, would be an ideal partner for her. Most men, we have seen, cannot best Typh in battle. (Something I find unrealistic, but OK.) I doubt she would be able to accept receiving sex from them because she wouldn’t respect them.
But Denver might be able to overpower her without hurting her, and she might be able to accept that from him as she would from no one else.
Just a quick note about chromosomes, it’s actually possible to be born a biological female with an XY chromosome pairing due to a condition called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. People often go their whole lives without knowing and only find out sometimes due to incidental testing. Even though sometime there can be noticeable effects, often other times there is not.
It’s because of this that they’ve dropped chromosomal testing for sporting events a long time ago as it doesn’t even mean anything because of this. Things get even more complicated with mosaicism and chimerism where the one person can have some cells in their body which are 46 XX and others which are 46 XY as just one possible variation.
As a practical matter, society has to operate for the convenience of the bell curve hump, not the tails, particularly not the extreme tails. Nice if the tails can be accommodated or at least tolerated, but demanding that the tails be made comfortable at the expense of the humps is going nowhere, and will inevitably lead to a backlash.
Or, in other words, tolerance must work both ways, if it all, but when push comes to shove, the majority wins.
We almost never determine whether people are male or female based on chromosomes (most people never get tested, nor need to be), we do so based on external physical appearance of defining physical characteristics at birth. That usually gets it right somewhere between 99/100 times to 999/1000 times. On its own it’s not really useful because of the number of exceptions due to biology, when you add them up, it is actually a significant amount.
Also, genotypes don’t matter so much as phenotypical expression; which is why women born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and a 46XY are thought to be female from birth and they don’t grow up thinking any differently at the same rates as the rest of the female population as just one example.
@Shan:
“physical characteristics at birth. That usually gets it right somewhere between 99/100 times to 999/1000 times. ”
Well, yeah, and I guess that’s what I’ve argued in terms of grammatical gender: people are right to make assumptions based on your appearance.
The genetic factor is only one thing providing confirmation in the vast majority of cases.
I see that there are some anatomical anomalies that go along with AIS, such as a missing uterus, but in the vast majority of cases (which are a tiny minority of the general population) individuals with AIS look like girls and act like girls.
In any event, I doubt it’s in play in Typh’s case, although I guess it hasn’t been ruled out.
I guess that’s a good question, did Typh’s chromosomes get changed along with the rest. Seems likely, given that pregnancy’s a possibility, something our best medical science can’t yet do. Well, there have been attempts in uterus transplants with women who lost their original ones through cancer but I don’t know how those turned out and whether they’d ever be applicable to anyone who was never born with one in the first place (additional problems, biological females from birth have wider pelvises than biological males from birth and even then it can be a tight if not impossible fit sometimes).
Also, magic is involved.
As for your other point, well yes if people have no prior knowledge they’d have to go on what they’d assume to be most likely I guess. One point in their favour, I guess they’d usually be right.
Of course the only thing that matters in the decision is if Typh was at all attracted to the king and is this case was not, then no deal which seems to be the case. At least the king seems pretty cool for a schemer and not a total creep.
However if Typh for argument’s sake did turn down the king’s offer not for personal reasons but just on the basis of having no real power or agency, potentially an opportunity might have been missed.
After all, Catherine the Great was originally considered to be occupying a similar role when as an outsider she married into the Russian royal family and she ended up running the joint. Mind you, it helped that Catherine’s husband was crazy stupid compared to the king here but I’m sure could potentially wrangle a decent set of concessions if so inclined. It certainly wasn’t a given to just end up as arm candy if some hard negotiation was applied.
Mind you, having no interest in being queen in the first place is also a valid reason of course.
@Shan & 50srefugee
While how it was presented is indeed a big part of it, the more I think about it the more I am forced to concede that it would have never worked out between Tiff and the King. The King is too much of a schemer and Tiff if tiff ever gets laid as a woman it will have to be with someone she can trust implicitly, and Kingie will never be it. Any chance he might have had, he blew with that whole attempt to trick her her into marriage. Tiff might learn to respect the king (in a POSITIVE way), but I don’t think she will ever be able to trust him. Even the marriage with Theresa was implied to be the result of the king calling in a favor, thought Terry is kinky enough that I doubt she will mind much. All of this is kind of a shame cause I think it would be interesting character development for Tiff to have to go all the ray from a scoundrel (Which as his backstory shows is putting it mildly) to a responsible leader. On the other hand if what her Grandfather said earlier wasn’t just the mad rantings of a deranged old man, that might still happen. And given the nature of both magic and reality in this world it might.
When you choose particular story paths, it does unavoidably close off other options such as that particular avenue.
Mind you, an alternate storyline where Typh ended up as queen and as Peonie’s step-mother could potentially have been really funny given how this story started off like a Conan the Barbarian or John Carter story in the beginning.
Maybe we can drop a line to Uatu the Watcher later on to do a What If? after the current storylines here have run their course in … I don’t know, 10 years or so?
Shan, girls do not have wider pelves than boys. If they did, then forensic teams wouldn’t have to present two reconstructions of juvenile skeletal remains, one aimed at female and one at male. Both sexes differentiate at puberty.
@Shan I must confess that it would be quite funny to see Tiffany force Peonie to call her Mommy, because it seems like the kinda trollish thing Tiff would do.
This What If? has been very inspirational. Although, the way I see the personalities here, I think ya’ll are putting the kingdom in a far…friendlier situation than it would be in if this played out.
Maybe Exiern deserves one extra alternate dimension…we’ll see…
Ugh … what I meant about real life pelvises was this and that people born biologically male that got Typh’ed through non magical means are going to have all the following problems even if a uterus transplant was possible. Obviously not applicable to Typh or anyone who got magicked ( as those potential problems would be adjusted/fixed by the magic so applicable to no-one here. Anyway, moving on from this now …
The female pelvis has evolved to its maximum width for childbirth and male pelvis has been optimized for bipedal locomotion.
KEY POINTS
The pelvis is one of the most useful skeletal elements for differentiating between males and females.
Female pelves are larger and wider than male pelves and have a rounder pelvic inlet.
Male iliac crests are higher than females, causing their false pelves to look taller and narrower.
The male sacrum is longer, narrower, straighter, and has a pronounced sacral promontory relative to the female sacrum.
The angle between the inferior pubic rami is acute (70 degrees) in men, but obtuse (90-100 degrees) in women. Accordingly, the angle is called the subpubic angle in men and pubic arch in women.
Well, the idea of a character in Typh’s position thinking that they can go from being an exiled barbarian to being in a position of having a real shot at running a whole kingdom but for that particular price … and then deciding that price is worth it is full of comic potential. Also, the king actually seems pretty cool actually, yes he’s devious but likeably so.
I think, perhaps, what Tiff is trying to say in her own way, and what the magic has tried to reiforce by accident, is to be true to yourself. Tiff on the inside, is a male, who likes other males, not a female that likes males, no matter how easy it might be to slip into that “role” because the magic has made it so. Knowing that Thomas/Theresa was the same way, yet now embracing her feminity, would be like a slap in the face to a person that is still trying to desperately seek out a magical cure to such a condition. Anger, frustration, pent up sexual tension, and confusion, these are just a few things that might be going on through Tiff’s mind that could lead to an outburst, or even a fight.
Well, they’re not exactly the same. It’s all but stated outright that (unlike Typh) before her transformation, Teresa had quite a liking for the ladies to the point where any unicorn riding would only have been possible a long, long time ago as opposed to everyone’s favourite barbarian (who as of now still has unicorn privileges).
On the subject of Teresa, when she says “Tiffany, I don’t know how to break this to you, but I could already read when we met, and I still can now.” … do you think it should have been “Tiffany, I don’t know how to break this to you, but I could already read *YOU* when we met, and I still can now.” as that would seem to make more sense don’t you think? (I mean, being an educated member of the clergy, I don’t think there was any doubt her reading abilities for quite some time now).
I guess I’ll have to wait for the next page then because as it currently stands, I’m not sure what she’s getting at. I need more information (completion of where that speech bubble was going) and context, all of which I’m sure is on the way.
@50srefuge Being on top isn’t “taking the male role”, that’s not how it works. There are many women that are naturally dominant and there are men that are submissive.
Still not quite seeing it yet. Yes, obviously she could read when they first met, is there any reason to think that would be any different now? Guess I’ll be able to wrap my head around it tomorrow.
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BWAHAHAHA!!!! It really seemed like they were approaching cordial no less, ah well, foot in mouth Teresa, foot-in-mouth.
Oh, Theresa, you catty little hussy, you! “I could already read,” indeed.
So what does Tiff really have against Terry? What does she think she’s learned that Terry hasn’t?
And I’m guessing that the book really is a trophy log of the children molested, raped, and killed by the corrupte church.
Wait, So all this time Teresa thought Typhan-Knee disliked her because of Typhan-Knee’s earlier accusation?
@TajZ Typhan-Knee and Teresa weren’t approaching cordial, just less hostile.
I think it has to do with Teresa obviously having been gay beforehand as well, or more likely trans, though I don’t think Typh realizes that. And she doesn’t understand how Teresa can’t just accept that rather then be happy in this form.
I mean I perfectly understand Teresa being happy how she is now, but I don’t think Typh fully grasps it considering his feelings.
There’s also the matter that Teresa rarely seems to realize that some of the things she says to Typhan-Knee are rather rude.
Yeah, but that’s not it. The Learned along with me bit rather nix’s that.
Are we currently getting 2 strips a week or 2 strips fortnightly alternating with 1 strip fortnightly instead of just 1 strip a week every week (which is what I thought we were getting, probably erroneously in retrospect).
And by the way, Typh, why is your little tiff with Terry more important than whatever it is that the book revealed? Granted, Terry started it.
That’s hot blondes for ya, so self centered. No sense of proportion.
(Judging by Urtica’s expression in frame four, he too thinks the girls are losing focus.)
@Shan We are alternating fortnightly for as long as I can afford to, and then we drop back to weekly.
I am not sure wheter Teresa is still that braindead…
…or if she is actually trying to get Typh to punch her to make certain she won’t go for Corriander.
Hm, quick archive trawl for what Typh’s going on about.
All I can see is:
1. Terry is pretty obnoxious to pretty much everyone right after she changed.
2. Terry tried to put the moves on Denver.
3. Terry was rather dismissive of Northern Barbarians, to say the least.
4. Typh resents Terry for indulging her female form.
5. And, yes, Typh thought Terry was a pervert, who as a male priest molested altar boys.
It’s clear that Terry took that last point as a mortal insult. There’s mutual distaste.
Of those five, I think Typh still holds onto the one about Terry wanting to remain a woman, but why she takes it so personally is not clear to me.
I really wish that comment systems wouldn’t put posts into moderation for containing links to the comic being commented on.
Without links, then:
Hm, quick archive trawl for what Typh’s going on about.
All I can see is:
1. Terry is pretty obnoxious to pretty much everyone right after she changed.
2. Terry tried to put the moves on Denver. [/2010/03/11/nosuchthing/]
3. Terry was rather dismissive of Northern Barbarians, to say the least.
4. Typh resents Terry for indulging her female form.
5. And, yes, Typh thought Terry was a pervert, who as a male priest molested altar boys. [/2010/07/01/exiern-2010-06-051-jweb/]
It’s clear that Terry took that last point as a mortal insult. There’s mutual distaste.
Of those five, I think Typh still holds onto the one about Terry wanting to remain a woman, but why she takes it so personally is not clear to me.
Thanks Scott (It was a nice unexpected bonus as I wasn’t expecting anything until next week). I was also wondering if it was worth getting the old http://darkreflections.exiern.com/ link to go to the first of the archive pages as it currently just seems to go nowhere.
I just ask because that’s the link on the top webcomics page if you want to see it. I know you’re not pursuing needing votes from there but just for fun, I’m seeing how high I can get Dark Reflections on my one vote a day (I’ve already helped with one other mystery person to get it raised over 500 places and we’re about to crack the Top 1000).
I always felt that Angel the series always got overshadowed by it’s parent show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is a shame because it was at least as good on its own merit, if not better. So I can sympathise with Dark Reflections and I’m just doing my small bit to get it a bit more time in the sun as well. 🙂
@Shan – where are you finding the DR old link? The new one is; http://extra.exiern.com/comic/dark-reflections-00/
Thanks for pushing it up, I’m sure the new writer, Zen, appreciates it!
Also, there’s finally a new page posted here; http://extra.exiern.com/comic/dark-reflections-45/
Although it will be posting in Patreon exclusively from there on, as an overall fundraising activity.
I found the old link here: http://topwebcomics.com/?searchterm=exiern
(It’s when you click on the Dark Reflections banner after either using that link or typing ‘exiern’ into the search box.)
@Shan – ah, thanks. I’ll have to see if the login I was given works for that as well. Or see if I can FWD the old URL.
There’s also the whole extreme racism thing about considering northerners to be essentially subhuman morons beneath contempt, and rubbing Tiff’s face in the fact of the church’s mostly successful genocidal war against the barbarian tribes. Terry well and truly doesn’t think Tiff smart enough to be worth taking seriously, and considers herself blatantly superior in essentially every way.
She’s as bigoted as anyone we’ve seen in this world, even if she has good intentions and redeeming qualities. Urtica and/or Peonie need to at least try to correct Terry’s attitude, though.
@RandomSpectator:
That makes a lot of sense. The dig about reading feeds into that.
Typh makes a point of saying that Terry “should have learned a lesson along with me,” suggesting that she herself learned a lesson–and you know, I think Typh learned that her own Northern tribe was not as barbaric as even she thought.
Of course, this still seems a distraction from the book issue.
The fact that Teresa not only started this conflict, but also worsened it with her explanations is precisely why this exchange is even happening, and why the book is not the focus at the moment. I put no blame on Tiff for seemingly ‘prioritizing’ her issues with Teresa here. She was merely responding to those digs against her.
And I would have to say one of the big issues Teresa has is her views on Northerners, not the fact Teresa is a woman.
Here’s a question I have for everyone since I’m new here, I just wanted to see how I’m doing in the interpretation side of things. I especially thought it was appropriate to ask now since such things as ‘former nomenclature’ (a certain character’s past) was brought up. What’s the best way to refer to our transformed characters? (Sorry for the verbose spiel to follow).
In our world, since almost every individual has the same gender from birth to death, you always refer to any time and event they’re involved in during their life history by that gender (as with anything involving people in real life, there’s always at least a few exceptions though).
However, in Exiern the impression I get from the characters themselves (as well as the reader comments), almost always people are referred to as they were at that given time.
For example, from the time of transformation Tiffany’s mostly been called … well Tiffany (until very recently) and referred to with female pronouns such as she and her but anything referring to before that event with he and him and by the name Typhan-Knee.
I’m guessing this is would have to be acceptable because there’s so many possibilities unlike our world and it can be impossible to know which one is applicable.
What I mean is, in this world you could be anything on a spectrum from assigned one way at birth and consciously aware that you want to be the other way and hence seek out means to achieve that, assigned one way and only subconsciously wanting to be the other at the time of (I’d imagine accidental or enforced change) or fine with assignment from birth (and then accidental or enforced change).
However if it’s the last of these, it could ultimately end up running in a few directions, namely a) actively wanting to change back and pursuing that as quickly as possible, b) wanting to change back but not in a rush c) ambivalent as in it’s happened and will revert if the opportunity presents itself but won’t expend excessive effort to do so or even d) wouldn’t have changed if it hadn’t happened by accident or forced but ends up finding they prefer it and deciding not to try and change back even if the opportunity presents itself. To confuse the issue further, it wouldn’t surprise me if people move between different points on this spectrum over the course of their lives too.
In the case of our lead character, I was thinking that it’s also potentially difficult to tell. Early on, the impression I got was maybe it was something the character may have subconsciously wanted given a) the result of the spell even took the spellcaster by surprise and b) the spellbook simply listing three or more pages of HA when asked by Tiffany/Typhan-Knee as to how they could change back to how they were. (That’s what I thought the author might have been implying).
On the other hand, more recently, there’s been a few things that have suggested the exact opposite, such as what Tiffany/Typhan-Knee said to Denver after his major foot in mouth incident when he suggested problems had been solved because of the body change. That plus later on when Tiffany/Typhan-Knee visualised themselves as their former physical appearance in their mind’s eye when meeting their grandmother.
I guess what I’m saying in really long winded fashion is that to keep things simple, when the lead character was biologically female, I’d use the name Tiffany and the pronouns she and her and when the character was biologically male, I’d use the name Typhan-Knee and the pronouns he and him. It just seems it would get confusing as to when you might be referring to if you didn’t.
Another argument I’m putting forward as to use like that as being acceptable is that unlike our world (where it really wouldn’t and shouldn’t fly) is that people seem to be a lot more progressive in that department in Exiern.
No-one really seems to care when they find out. Denver only seemed annoyed he hadn’t been told, not about *what* he hadn’t been told. The King didn’t care in the case of either of his engagements, (though in both cases it seems it was mainly about political advantage so far).
The populace obviously knows the new queen’s past history and there’s no sign of problems either. Everything seems to be pointing to “Cool, there’s a party.” and “Will there be cake?”. Also, the characters themselves never seem to have shown any signs of caring whether they’re referred to with male or female pronouns or their new or old names. Even beforehand with the church, objections seemed to be not really to do with the transformation specifically but more to do with the conduct since the change wasn’t considered acceptable by the clergy – thought undignified I guess (though I haven’t read that short story “A Woman’s Place” which might contradict that, anyone know where I can find that?).
So what does everyone else think on the matter? Teresa so far seems easier to come to a conclusion (as far as I can tell, there really hasn’t been any ambiguity seen post transformation) but in Tiffany/Typhan-Knee’s case, not so much for me at least as I started off thinking one thing (a parallel to Teresa I guess) based on what I’d seen up to a point but then started to think maybe the opposite (based on what happened after that point).
In all cases I go by whatever the individual wants to be called. I really love how John Oliver addressed the subject;
John Oliver’s great and I’ve seen that clip. The weatherman in that somehow managed to completely by accident stumble on exactly the right answer in the end, didn’t he?
I guess to try and boil my question down to manageable bite sized chunks here though, in this world it’s potentially a lot harder because the characters themselves might not know. For example, for all I know if things had been different and Typhan-Knee never went to Asylum, would Typhan-Knee stayed in the same body or at some point come to a realisation and actively seek out the means to change. There’s nothing to completely contradict either of those possibilities yet I guess (You’d know though of course).
Using the knock on effect, if Typhan-Knee went on unchanged and especially never intersected with the clergy, would Thomas still be Thomas? Was it a case of taking advantage of a circumstance which if it hadn’t happened, that character would never actively have sought it out? Or not?
@Shan – you’ve actually started to stumble into what is the subject of a future planned arc, so I’m actually going to refrain from any answers for fear of spoiling that adventure!
Fair enough. In the same vein, a couple of questions I don’t want the answers to past the point of knowing that the subject’s still being thought about are a) What happened to the first (?) queen (Peonie’s mother) and b) there’s going to come a time when Typhan-Knee/Tiffany will want to take a relationship with someone beyond the point where you can keep unicorn privileges. The question is that, obviously they’re aware of that fact and what they’ll lose, so I guess there’s a chance we’ll have a page or two at least in future where they at least contemplate that dilemma?
a) I know what happened, and it will be revealed when it makes sense in the story, but I haven’t artificial decided to hold that off for any reason, b) I have plotted out such a relationship for Typh, and the question I think on is less what he will lose and more what would he gain?
Hopefully that is not too obtuse…
No, not at all. I wasn’t expecting or even wanting an answer at all past “yes, we haven’t forgotten about it”, so this is an added bonus.
Except for maybe the unicorn.
As a matter of correct grammar, and as a courtesy to the vast majority of the people you meet who do not know you, you get the the pronouns appropriate for the sex you present as.
Tiffany presents as a female–has no choice, really. Ash Upton, victim of the Misfile, presents as female, as does Jeanie in I Dream of a Jeanie Bottle, Yuuki of Sparkling Generation Valkyrie Yuuki and the other Tiffany (aka Red) at the Jeanie spin-off The Melvin Chronicles. They all were originally male, and all claim, with varying degrees of stridency, to want to be males again.
All of them, however, are inescapably female, and female pronouns attach to all of them.
Scott, I eagerly await Typh’s romance–and I hope it’s with a man.
(I’ll note that El Goonish Shive characters have also explored gender-switching, but perhaps more than any other comic displays the attitude that our bodies are little more than meat suits, and that males and females are pretty much interchangeable. Except girls have boobs, squish squish squish.)
Honestly, I never really thought much and simply refer to both Teresa and Tiff as ‘she’, just ‘because’. o.O Really, it depends on the comic. In the case of El Goonish Shive, I end up referring to the characters by their regular genders regardless of which gender they’re currently at (as in Elliot is a ‘he’ despite the fact, asof now, he’s transformed into a girl). Yuuki I end up referring to him as a ‘she’. Ash, that one is interchangeable. So, yeah, the best answer I would give is ‘because’. :/
@50srefugee: Wait! Jeannie, from I dream on Jeannie only “presents as female”?
Noooooooo! This was childhood crush!!!!
Bah! Forget it. I’d still dream on Jeannie if I could. Give me that bottle!
😉
@ Nef – Not the TV show, it’s a webcomic called “I Dream of a Jeanie [sic] Bottle” where a guy named Jean finds a bottle and accidentally turns himself into what he thinks a genie should look like (he didn’t know it was a real genie bottle understandably). He happens to think a genie looks like what Barbara Eden did in a certain TV show of a similar name.
To complicate the discussion we’ve been having, in this case everyone who doesn’t know what happened thinks he’s female and as time passes, the longer he’s unable to fix the situation, it seems increasingly likely *she’s* going to accept things as they are. (It makes sense when you read it, it’s clear the character’s state of mind is changing over time. I guess the question is at what point exactly did the changeover happen and does it become retroactive as had this accident never happened, the character would never have gone down this path).
Look at the king’s expression. He’s just sitting back thinking, “Well, here it goes. Maybe I’ll end up getting married to a different woman, maybe not. Whatever. Least there’ll be cake.”
@Shan: Typhan-Knee has insisted to be called Typhan-Knee instead of Tiffany.
@50srefuge But if a person tells you their preferred pronouns, it would be impolite(Some would even say transphobic) to misgendere them.
Ash Upton is identifies as male, so he’s still “he” regardless of his current body and Typhan-Knee already stated that he prefers Typhan-Knee and not Tiffany.
As for romance for Typhan-Knee, we already know that he was a gay man before being transformed, so we already know that. That whomever fall for Typhan-Knee will probably need to be into pegging.
By that i mean Typhan-Knee probably prefers to be the one on top, just to be clear.
@ Jake, I know but that’s a fairly recent development as of this calendar year and only the king has been told that so far.
After thinking about it and reading everyone’s replies here as well as the past strips and comments, this is the approach I’m going with for the time being:
(TL;DR version. In webcomic instant transformation universes, unless the character specifically states otherwise, I’m going to use the names and pronouns applicable to the character during that time frame/at the time being referred to.)
In a general sense with these webcomic universes, I’m going to go with pronouns based on the presentation of the character at the time. The reason being that unlike our world, people can be transformed instantly; furthermore they can be completely involuntary changes too – but not necessarily. Furthermore it’s impossible without further information to differentiate people who’ve always wanted to change (hence been the same gender their entire lives) versus for want of a better word “opportunistic” who end up deciding over time to leave the change as it is and run with it.
At this point, I don’t think you can completely rule this out for Teresa as presumably she may have been able to have changed herself via magic for up to years beforehand if she wanted instead of only deciding to take advantage of an unforeseen accident (maybe we’ll find out next week). So based on which is applicable could determine which names and pronouns you’d use to refer to her past and unless stated otherwise, maybe it’s least confusing and most accurate to use what was current at the time being referred to.
In Typh’s case depending on how far through the story you’ve been, it could be fair to say that it could be hard to tell what Typh wanted. Earlier on, it would seem reasonable that Typh at least subconsciously wanted to be female based on the effects of the spell taking even the caster by surprise as well as the book’s reaction to asking about how to change back (three pages of HAHA etc). However, as you go further on it now seems that the situation might be the exact opposite and Typh wants to change back. Word of God seems to suggest that too but who knows, that could change as the author sees how the story evolves (and hence what the character wants as a result – for all we know the Typh may end up *not* changing back and that may not presently be known to the author right now either).
Since it can be impossible to know intent until specifically specified by the character due to the number of possibilities I actually think until a character says something, it’s just easiest to use pronouns referring to the state of the body at the time you’re talking about as the least confusing option. (For example Ash from Misfile is a particular and unique mix of a few different can of worms while a different character in seemingly the same situation would be different in other ways).
As I said before, it helps a great deal that people in this universe almost entirely don’t care. Denver and Typh’s grandmother only cared about Typh being honest, if things had been different, the king totally would have gone through with that marriage and even Typh’s brother was only treating his sibling the way he did for political reasons and as well as the fact he was absolutely terrified of Typh and that never changed even after Typh’s body did.
I figure in the next one to three strips we’re going to get more guidance on the specific ways to now address the characters in this situation and how Typh and Teresa are going to differ if the last panel on this page is anything to go by.
@Jake:
In real life, I’ll use whatever name or pronoun a person gives me. I see no reason to do otherwise.
When discussing fantasy comic characters, I’ll use whatever name seems right to me as I type–especially in regards to a comic like this one, where Typh’s sexuality is indeed fluid from moment to moment.
Please keep in mind, though, that if you look like a girl, especially to the degree Typh does, and I need to point you out to someone asking after ‘Typhan-Knee”, I’m going to point to you and say, “She’s over there.”
By default, you are the sex defined by your chromosomes and your physical appearance. Denying this is denying reality.
Even in Typh’s world, there are limits on wishing-makes-it-so, and as Typh has found, pressing too hard against that can have disastrous consequences.
===
When I said I wanted Typh’s romance to be with a man, I meant I wanted her to be a woman. It is a deep irony of her “curse”, or whatever it is, that it rests most lightly on her if she doesn’t fight against it too hard.
And in regards to the sexual act, the irony becomes so deep as to become something of a koan: Can Typh submit to a man, as a woman, and not lose her self-respect? Can she accept that doing so is part of a necessary symmetry of complementary strengths, that it does not mean that women are inferior? I encourage you to meditate, deeply, on the yin-yang symbol, and remember that its two components are defined first and foremost as male and female, and that both are necessary to maintain spiritual harmony and biological viability.
If the two halves become “equal”, mixing to a uniform gray, the mandala loses its identity, its coherency, and its power. It dies.
If, in the climactic moment, Typh attempts to take the male role, I suspect the curse will recoil on her in a way far worse than simply putting her in a metal bikini.
What I’m suggesting here is that Exiern is not a story about transexuality as such.
Rather, it’s about Typh learning that women are more than brood mares and house servants.
It’s not about Typh being a woman with male strength, it’s about Typh, with a barbarian male outlook, learning about female strength.
===
You know, it occurs to me that as a male, Typhan-Knee regarded sex as primarily a dominance maneuver. Given his low opinion of women, perhaps he lusted after men because, in part, raping another male was a greater conquest than raping a mere woman.
As a woman herself, now, can she abandon that model of sexual aggression? Can she accept taking the bottom position without perceiving herself as being raped?
In this context, Denver, who has a gentle nature but supernatural draconic strength, would be an ideal partner for her. Most men, we have seen, cannot best Typh in battle. (Something I find unrealistic, but OK.) I doubt she would be able to accept receiving sex from them because she wouldn’t respect them.
But Denver might be able to overpower her without hurting her, and she might be able to accept that from him as she would from no one else.
Just a quick note about chromosomes, it’s actually possible to be born a biological female with an XY chromosome pairing due to a condition called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. People often go their whole lives without knowing and only find out sometimes due to incidental testing. Even though sometime there can be noticeable effects, often other times there is not.
It’s because of this that they’ve dropped chromosomal testing for sporting events a long time ago as it doesn’t even mean anything because of this. Things get even more complicated with mosaicism and chimerism where the one person can have some cells in their body which are 46 XX and others which are 46 XY as just one possible variation.
@Shan: “chromosomes”
Yes, but it’s the way to bet.
As a practical matter, society has to operate for the convenience of the bell curve hump, not the tails, particularly not the extreme tails. Nice if the tails can be accommodated or at least tolerated, but demanding that the tails be made comfortable at the expense of the humps is going nowhere, and will inevitably lead to a backlash.
Or, in other words, tolerance must work both ways, if it all, but when push comes to shove, the majority wins.
We almost never determine whether people are male or female based on chromosomes (most people never get tested, nor need to be), we do so based on external physical appearance of defining physical characteristics at birth. That usually gets it right somewhere between 99/100 times to 999/1000 times. On its own it’s not really useful because of the number of exceptions due to biology, when you add them up, it is actually a significant amount.
Also, genotypes don’t matter so much as phenotypical expression; which is why women born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and a 46XY are thought to be female from birth and they don’t grow up thinking any differently at the same rates as the rest of the female population as just one example.
@Shan:
“physical characteristics at birth. That usually gets it right somewhere between 99/100 times to 999/1000 times. ”
Well, yeah, and I guess that’s what I’ve argued in terms of grammatical gender: people are right to make assumptions based on your appearance.
The genetic factor is only one thing providing confirmation in the vast majority of cases.
I see that there are some anatomical anomalies that go along with AIS, such as a missing uterus, but in the vast majority of cases (which are a tiny minority of the general population) individuals with AIS look like girls and act like girls.
In any event, I doubt it’s in play in Typh’s case, although I guess it hasn’t been ruled out.
I guess that’s a good question, did Typh’s chromosomes get changed along with the rest. Seems likely, given that pregnancy’s a possibility, something our best medical science can’t yet do. Well, there have been attempts in uterus transplants with women who lost their original ones through cancer but I don’t know how those turned out and whether they’d ever be applicable to anyone who was never born with one in the first place (additional problems, biological females from birth have wider pelvises than biological males from birth and even then it can be a tight if not impossible fit sometimes).
Also, magic is involved.
As for your other point, well yes if people have no prior knowledge they’d have to go on what they’d assume to be most likely I guess. One point in their favour, I guess they’d usually be right.
Heh heh, love Terry’s comment at the end 😀
Wait, “All but one (reason) was unfounded”? What reason could that be? That Terry actually likes being female and has accepted the change?
Also loving poor Princess P-Cups trying to hold back Tiff 😀
@ Guesticus
And it’s not like Typh didn’t have the chance to be queen first either. It was right there for the taking if Typh wanted it.
@Shan: The problem for Typh is, it looks as if she were offered the position of Queen Consort, not Queen Regnant.
And I think she doesn’t want Regnant badly enough, if at all, to accept it if Consort is part of the price.
Of course the only thing that matters in the decision is if Typh was at all attracted to the king and is this case was not, then no deal which seems to be the case. At least the king seems pretty cool for a schemer and not a total creep.
However if Typh for argument’s sake did turn down the king’s offer not for personal reasons but just on the basis of having no real power or agency, potentially an opportunity might have been missed.
After all, Catherine the Great was originally considered to be occupying a similar role when as an outsider she married into the Russian royal family and she ended up running the joint. Mind you, it helped that Catherine’s husband was crazy stupid compared to the king here but I’m sure could potentially wrangle a decent set of concessions if so inclined. It certainly wasn’t a given to just end up as arm candy if some hard negotiation was applied.
Mind you, having no interest in being queen in the first place is also a valid reason of course.
@Shan & 50srefugee
While how it was presented is indeed a big part of it, the more I think about it the more I am forced to concede that it would have never worked out between Tiff and the King. The King is too much of a schemer and Tiff if tiff ever gets laid as a woman it will have to be with someone she can trust implicitly, and Kingie will never be it. Any chance he might have had, he blew with that whole attempt to trick her her into marriage. Tiff might learn to respect the king (in a POSITIVE way), but I don’t think she will ever be able to trust him. Even the marriage with Theresa was implied to be the result of the king calling in a favor, thought Terry is kinky enough that I doubt she will mind much. All of this is kind of a shame cause I think it would be interesting character development for Tiff to have to go all the ray from a scoundrel (Which as his backstory shows is putting it mildly) to a responsible leader. On the other hand if what her Grandfather said earlier wasn’t just the mad rantings of a deranged old man, that might still happen. And given the nature of both magic and reality in this world it might.
When you choose particular story paths, it does unavoidably close off other options such as that particular avenue.
Mind you, an alternate storyline where Typh ended up as queen and as Peonie’s step-mother could potentially have been really funny given how this story started off like a Conan the Barbarian or John Carter story in the beginning.
Maybe we can drop a line to Uatu the Watcher later on to do a What If? after the current storylines here have run their course in … I don’t know, 10 years or so?
Shan, girls do not have wider pelves than boys. If they did, then forensic teams wouldn’t have to present two reconstructions of juvenile skeletal remains, one aimed at female and one at male. Both sexes differentiate at puberty.
@Shan I must confess that it would be quite funny to see Tiffany force Peonie to call her Mommy, because it seems like the kinda trollish thing Tiff would do.
I guess it’d be something like this: “Yes mother … *exasperated sigh*”
@That would be fun to see.
This What If? has been very inspirational. Although, the way I see the personalities here, I think ya’ll are putting the kingdom in a far…friendlier situation than it would be in if this played out.
Maybe Exiern deserves one extra alternate dimension…we’ll see…
@obviously it would bea AFTER CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT kind of thing. On another note any chance Tiff/Typh will help train Peonie in sword fighting?
Ugh … what I meant about real life pelvises was this and that people born biologically male that got Typh’ed through non magical means are going to have all the following problems even if a uterus transplant was possible. Obviously not applicable to Typh or anyone who got magicked ( as those potential problems would be adjusted/fixed by the magic so applicable to no-one here. Anyway, moving on from this now …
The female pelvis has evolved to its maximum width for childbirth and male pelvis has been optimized for bipedal locomotion.
KEY POINTS
The pelvis is one of the most useful skeletal elements for differentiating between males and females.
Female pelves are larger and wider than male pelves and have a rounder pelvic inlet.
Male iliac crests are higher than females, causing their false pelves to look taller and narrower.
The male sacrum is longer, narrower, straighter, and has a pronounced sacral promontory relative to the female sacrum.
The angle between the inferior pubic rami is acute (70 degrees) in men, but obtuse (90-100 degrees) in women. Accordingly, the angle is called the subpubic angle in men and pubic arch in women.
@ Scott
Well, the idea of a character in Typh’s position thinking that they can go from being an exiled barbarian to being in a position of having a real shot at running a whole kingdom but for that particular price … and then deciding that price is worth it is full of comic potential. Also, the king actually seems pretty cool actually, yes he’s devious but likeably so.
I think, perhaps, what Tiff is trying to say in her own way, and what the magic has tried to reiforce by accident, is to be true to yourself. Tiff on the inside, is a male, who likes other males, not a female that likes males, no matter how easy it might be to slip into that “role” because the magic has made it so. Knowing that Thomas/Theresa was the same way, yet now embracing her feminity, would be like a slap in the face to a person that is still trying to desperately seek out a magical cure to such a condition. Anger, frustration, pent up sexual tension, and confusion, these are just a few things that might be going on through Tiff’s mind that could lead to an outburst, or even a fight.
Well, they’re not exactly the same. It’s all but stated outright that (unlike Typh) before her transformation, Teresa had quite a liking for the ladies to the point where any unicorn riding would only have been possible a long, long time ago as opposed to everyone’s favourite barbarian (who as of now still has unicorn privileges).
On the subject of Teresa, when she says “Tiffany, I don’t know how to break this to you, but I could already read when we met, and I still can now.” … do you think it should have been “Tiffany, I don’t know how to break this to you, but I could already read *YOU* when we met, and I still can now.” as that would seem to make more sense don’t you think? (I mean, being an educated member of the clergy, I don’t think there was any doubt her reading abilities for quite some time now).
On the
@shan I don’t think so. Teresa has a noticeable racist streak, I think she meant what she said quite literally.
I guess I’ll have to wait for the next page then because as it currently stands, I’m not sure what she’s getting at. I need more information (completion of where that speech bubble was going) and context, all of which I’m sure is on the way.
@Shan Teresa was talking about the fact that Typhan-Knee was illiterate when they first met.
As for Teresa, it was implied she was a transwoman before, hence why she saw the transformation as a blessing.
@50srefuge Being on top isn’t “taking the male role”, that’s not how it works. There are many women that are naturally dominant and there are men that are submissive.
@ Jake
Still not quite seeing it yet. Yes, obviously she could read when they first met, is there any reason to think that would be any different now? Guess I’ll be able to wrap my head around it tomorrow.
@Jake How are you not seeing it, it was already established. The prose story that focuses on Teresa also confirmed this fact.
Maybe I’m just being dense. It’s quite possible.
Where can I find that prose story? I’ve been looking but haven’t found it yet.
Never mind, finally had the bright idea of googling the name of the story + exiern. Like I said, can be dense.
Was looking back because of today’s comic and just noticed that Teresa’s sleeves change colors in Panel 2.
An emotional roller coaster for one
A flower field and a clean orgy for another