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Starting February 1st ALL new Exiern pages will post ONLY to Exiern.com and Our Patreon. Please read and support us there!
Swords, Sorcery, And Then Some!
Howdy, New Readers! Thanks for reading Exiern!
Written by Scott T. Hicken with art by Antipus, the comic updates Mondays. Please check out the Archive to enjoy the earlier adventures of Typh and Peonie!
Exiern contains mature themes and is best for readers 18+.
I admit, I’m not exactly following what Typh is saying. It just doesn’t seem to match up with the violent reaction she had to the spell’s rejection of her costume change, and her repeated attempts to get around it in the clothing shops.
Perhaps she’s going to have to learn to accept her body as well as her inner self.
I don’t even entirely understand her becoming more masculine at her grandfather’s bedside. (Although that might be why she thought she could get away with more masculine clothing.)
I like Peonie’s understand of being judged on the basis of her body–but we’ve certainly seen some evidence that she herself has played up to the stereotype.
But my problem is not so much understanding that, which is fairly straightforward, but seeing how that meshes with everything we’ve seen since Typh left her grandfather’s bedside.
I mentioned her becoming more masculine there. Given what we know of the terms of the spell (or curse, or whatever), that it has to do with her perception of femininity, what insight did she have of her own nature that relaxed the grip of the spell? And what, then, did she MISunderstand that triggered the brass bikini syndrome?
It’s no one thing; it’s the flow of the story, and of Typh’s insights and lack thereof that I’m having trouble fitting together.
Hmmm, given they were only discussing this “plan” when Theresa was around to use her spellsinging ability to prevent eavesdropping, should Peonie even be mentioning the existence of a “plan” out in the open? Shouldn’t she have found some excuse to get Tiffany up to her room (or someplace else that Theresa could protect) and then bring up the plan, so the church wouldn’t get suspicious?
I think some of the confusion about the previous pages stems from a subtlety of Exiern’s storytelling that started with Chemiclord’s run. It’s never been states explicitly in the comic, but there have been comments made by readers that have figured it out – in Exiern, during a flashback the person who is telling the story is drawn to show how they see themselves, not how they were actually physically present. It’s a nod to psychological bias we all have as narrators of our own lives, regardless of how honest we are trying to be.
In this case, Typh’s flashback shows him in the beginning as a woman because he hasn’t yet finalized how he sees himself at that time. He then has an understanding of who he wants to be and changes to a male body in the flashback to illustrate his new view of himself. It represents a psychological shift, not a physical one.
That’s my failure in storytelling to leave such an important detail to such an unclear fashion.
@ScottHicken: “He then has an understanding of who he wants to be and changes to a male body in the flashback to illustrate his new view of himself. It represents a psychological shift, not a physical one.”
Ah, that helps a lot, thank you. So Typh now sees herself as a knight, not a barbarian.
@Quentin – Castles tend be dark/murky, even when it’s daylight out and there are open windows. The candles help keep the light even by dissipating shadows in darker areas, and warm the corridors a bit. Also, they flush out dark corners where thieves or assassins may be lurking.
@50srefugee, I would debate the knight vs barbarian angle as that disregards what progress Wyll-Line has made, there is still a great disparity between roles and expectations between men and women – but there is progress nonetheless – considering it has necessitated it be done in the shadows (re-read Cold Confrontations arc). It is clear he had a great respect for both Gillian, his mother – ‘the trophy’, and Irene, Diana’s mother and Neil’s sister – ‘the fighter’. He has removed many of the hardliners but still has to keep up a relative facade until all the tribes become more progressive, he is after-all soon to be Neils nephew-in-law as it were. These are not knightly actions but noble ones…
This does make some of Tiff’s self-discovery arc confusing though, because she introduces herself as ‘Tiffany your granddaughter’ to her grandmother. http://www.exiern.com/2014/06/24/introduction/
but more importantly as others have noted before ‘What if I am not broken?’ http://www.exiern.com/2013/03/14/big-ifs/
By the way in regards to my stripper comment from a few weeks ago, that is from Geoffery James “Sex, Lies, and Videogames: Why can’t videogames have story arcs that include sex?” in Computer Gaming World issue #262, May 2006. The quote is :
“While a videogame may be the only place in the universe where a woman can put on plate armor and still look like a stripper on her snack break,…”
Clearly comics invalidates that comment slightly.
TajZ:
While the lines are rather fuzzy, I could think of no better shorthand for the change in role that Typh seems to be making here, just in terms of being a warrior, without looking at the sexual role.
Wyll-line may be working towards building a court with a warrior class working more like knights than raiders, but neither he nor his society are there yet, not even close. It still seems to be primarily a society centered on its warriors, and fighting against aggressive raiders as its heroes and primary source of wealth.
Typh’s spell, on the other hand, seems to only concern itself with the sexual role. And while Typh is no longer quite as dismissive of the female role as she was, the very strong response to her attempts to take on masculine clothing show she still regards the male and female roles as different. She’s right on that point–men and women are indeed different, and their social roles are meant to support and take advantage of their biological differences. But there is more than one way a society can shape those roles, while still distinguishing between them.
Until Typh can acknowledge the worth of the female role–which is not a warrior’s role, far from it–until she can accept female strengths and weaknesses, she will have no leverage with the curse.
The role of a knight is more on the defensive, protective side of being a warrior, as opposed to the aggressive, raiding nature of barbarian warriors.
And what knights protect is exactly a safe haven for women, children, and non-warrior males, such as tradesmen and farmers. Accepting the knightly ideal demands the recognition of women as being necessary to the ongoing function of any society, and therefore being worthy of protection. But, as highly regarded as knights may be, they are not the point of society. The point is raising of crops, the free flow of commerce and ideas, and the safety and well-being of the people. (Um, see the preamble to the American Constitution for a good summary–though Urtica’s Realm is itself a long far way from that ideal.)
I emphasize that I am speaking of ideals and generalities here; there are noble barbarians and brutal knights. But those are the two poles drawing on Typh at this time, and I think what Scott is showing us is her recognizing women as partners in society, rather than as mere broodmares and servants of fierce men.
You know, the being judged thing is normal, right?
Most people aren’t interested in who you actually are, they want you to fit into their preconceived notion of you – and get grumpy when you aren’t what *they* want you to be.
Admittedly it is tougher for some than others, and the degree of judgement varies by the person making the judgement, but to one degree or another it is something everyone has to deal with.
If someone gets to know you, they may start to accept you more as you, but they will never completely get over that you aren’t exactly what they wasn’t you to be – unless maybe they expect nothing of you.
In this case, Typhan-knee in her old body would still be judged by her appearance, it would just be different. Everyone in the kingdom would see him and assume him stupid, uncultured, brutal, violent, a murderer, a rapist, misogynistic, and every other stereotype they have about ‘barbarians’. This assessment would be made on sight alone. Doesn’t matter that he actually was a lot of those things (but not all), the assumption was just on appearances with no knowledge.
Same thing in our world. We dress up when we want to impress others; they see us neatly groomed, well dressed, clean, etc. and we are trying to make others make the assumption that we are upstanding people so they will view us favourably. Doesn’t matter if we really are a lazy slob (or whatever) we are attempting to manipulate the other person’s human tendency to snap judgements in our favour.
But usually such snap judgements aren’t in our favour, particularly if we appear to be from a different group or ‘tribe’ than them.
@50srefugee and Eric – Hey guys I actually completely agree with your comments and you both took it farther than I thought it would go. They are completely valid and reasonable. I still will disagree on a few things though, firstly while a knight does do all of those things such as protecting both the nobility and the common people technically as they protect the borders, they still basically enforce the commands of the monarchy as they become vassals and nobles in their own right, doing this does not always allow for a flow of commerce and knowledge and the obstruction and outright destruction of these concepts – all carried out by knights before and even during the ‘Age of Chivalry’. Also, there is another component to being a knight and that is religious one. A monarch can ‘anoint’ a knight, which technically Urtica did to Typh and charging her with the protection of Peonie, but they must also go through a process through the Church, though this being a fantasy setting, might not require that, especially considering Urtica’s stance with the Church and Typh sure as hell isn’t going to care about the dealing with the Church of Rem. Going back to her deal with Urtica to protect P-Cups, she didn’t do it out of some sort of moral conviction, she wanted gold and though Typh has certainly began to appreciate her companions, she is not doing this out of some decree but just that she will protect her friends and a rather substantial pay and hey quoting Gendry in GoT (HBO, still need to catch up on the books) “You don’t have to be a knight to buy armor” and so even though Typh wears the palace armor briefly, it sure isn’t because she is going to be joining Urtica’s court. So I do not see this as a case of anything to do with either being a knight or a barbarian.
It is just a part of reconciling her past and her current experiences by going through these adventures with these particular set of companions and also reconciling and connecting with her family and what they have had to teach her though their own experiences.
I apologize if my clinging to a single phrase would cause uh… discord. And definitely addressed the different spectrums ‘knightood’ can take. It is also true that perceptions based on appearance hold true on our world or in this world, and it is certainly true Typh cares about the perceptions of men and women based on visual cues I don’t think she cares as much about the notion of knighthood and Ash Tribe culture. Though I can be totally off on my understanding of the character and her thoughts and motivations.
Though clearly both Typh and Wyll have an evolved sense on Ash culture and are trying to modify and change it in their own subtle ways that not everyone in either the tribe or outside are recognizing. Again, Diana actually enforcing the soft border from possible encroaching Rus even though the fishers think she is only there and not on the ‘raiding parties’ because she is ‘just a woman’ and could be the greatest hunter if not for Melan-knee.
Be a Producer!Your name/title with an optional SFW hyperlink will be posted prominently HERE following the close of the month! You’ll also receive monthly mailings from Exiern’s author, Scott T. Hicken!
Yep – that’s our girl!
“…literally pushed him away.” Is she talking about Denver or have I forgotten someone? Surely she doesn’t mean the king.
“We just need you to not kill someone.” LOL.
And she’s going to do herself an injury with that stomacher.
What’s with the candles? They’re lit yet it’s daylight.
@ Chaucer, yes. She’s speaking of Denver. Still, that whole “I hate it already.” That’s the Typhan-knee we all know and love.
I really like how close Peonie and Typhan-Knee have become. It’s good he has Peonie for support.
@Chaucer59: He’s talking about Denver, yeah.
“Basically we just need you to NOT kill someone.” – Why is Tiffany always getting the hard parts in Urticas plan?
@all – No kidding, Tiff needs to brawl something to let off steam.
When is Peonie going to start dressing like a princess at court. She is still wearing her on the road clothes?
If I’m understanding this page correctly, Typh now feels comfortable enough in this body, because she finally feels like herself inside.
I admit, I’m not exactly following what Typh is saying. It just doesn’t seem to match up with the violent reaction she had to the spell’s rejection of her costume change, and her repeated attempts to get around it in the clothing shops.
Perhaps she’s going to have to learn to accept her body as well as her inner self.
I don’t even entirely understand her becoming more masculine at her grandfather’s bedside. (Although that might be why she thought she could get away with more masculine clothing.)
I like Peonie’s understand of being judged on the basis of her body–but we’ve certainly seen some evidence that she herself has played up to the stereotype.
@50srefuge: That Typhan-Knee learning to accept who he is on the inside. His true self, even if no one else can see it.
But yeah, it is probably why he though he could get away with more masculine clothing.
@Bandit: Well, yes.
But my problem is not so much understanding that, which is fairly straightforward, but seeing how that meshes with everything we’ve seen since Typh left her grandfather’s bedside.
I mentioned her becoming more masculine there. Given what we know of the terms of the spell (or curse, or whatever), that it has to do with her perception of femininity, what insight did she have of her own nature that relaxed the grip of the spell? And what, then, did she MISunderstand that triggered the brass bikini syndrome?
It’s no one thing; it’s the flow of the story, and of Typh’s insights and lack thereof that I’m having trouble fitting together.
Hmmm, given they were only discussing this “plan” when Theresa was around to use her spellsinging ability to prevent eavesdropping, should Peonie even be mentioning the existence of a “plan” out in the open? Shouldn’t she have found some excuse to get Tiffany up to her room (or someplace else that Theresa could protect) and then bring up the plan, so the church wouldn’t get suspicious?
I think some of the confusion about the previous pages stems from a subtlety of Exiern’s storytelling that started with Chemiclord’s run. It’s never been states explicitly in the comic, but there have been comments made by readers that have figured it out – in Exiern, during a flashback the person who is telling the story is drawn to show how they see themselves, not how they were actually physically present. It’s a nod to psychological bias we all have as narrators of our own lives, regardless of how honest we are trying to be.
In this case, Typh’s flashback shows him in the beginning as a woman because he hasn’t yet finalized how he sees himself at that time. He then has an understanding of who he wants to be and changes to a male body in the flashback to illustrate his new view of himself. It represents a psychological shift, not a physical one.
That’s my failure in storytelling to leave such an important detail to such an unclear fashion.
@ScottHicken: “He then has an understanding of who he wants to be and changes to a male body in the flashback to illustrate his new view of himself. It represents a psychological shift, not a physical one.”
Ah, that helps a lot, thank you. So Typh now sees herself as a knight, not a barbarian.
That explains her “It was this body she was embracing” comment, and her strong desire to put on a guard’s uniform.
Her internal view of who she wants to be may have changed, but who the spell will allow her to look like is a different matter.
@Quentin – Castles tend be dark/murky, even when it’s daylight out and there are open windows. The candles help keep the light even by dissipating shadows in darker areas, and warm the corridors a bit. Also, they flush out dark corners where thieves or assassins may be lurking.
The candles are lit because meany of the inside halls and corridors dont have windows to the outside to let in sunlight ! 😛
So its the druges job to make sure all the candles in the pallice/castle are lit and replaced !
Cause what’s the good of all that tax money thay soke the pesents for if not ta flont it in exsess! 😉
@50srefugee, I would debate the knight vs barbarian angle as that disregards what progress Wyll-Line has made, there is still a great disparity between roles and expectations between men and women – but there is progress nonetheless – considering it has necessitated it be done in the shadows (re-read Cold Confrontations arc). It is clear he had a great respect for both Gillian, his mother – ‘the trophy’, and Irene, Diana’s mother and Neil’s sister – ‘the fighter’. He has removed many of the hardliners but still has to keep up a relative facade until all the tribes become more progressive, he is after-all soon to be Neils nephew-in-law as it were. These are not knightly actions but noble ones…
This does make some of Tiff’s self-discovery arc confusing though, because she introduces herself as ‘Tiffany your granddaughter’ to her grandmother.
http://www.exiern.com/2014/06/24/introduction/
but more importantly as others have noted before ‘What if I am not broken?’
http://www.exiern.com/2013/03/14/big-ifs/
By the way in regards to my stripper comment from a few weeks ago, that is from Geoffery James “Sex, Lies, and Videogames: Why can’t videogames have story arcs that include sex?” in Computer Gaming World issue #262, May 2006. The quote is :
“While a videogame may be the only place in the universe where a woman can put on plate armor and still look like a stripper on her snack break,…”
Clearly comics invalidates that comment slightly.
TajZ:
While the lines are rather fuzzy, I could think of no better shorthand for the change in role that Typh seems to be making here, just in terms of being a warrior, without looking at the sexual role.
Wyll-line may be working towards building a court with a warrior class working more like knights than raiders, but neither he nor his society are there yet, not even close. It still seems to be primarily a society centered on its warriors, and fighting against aggressive raiders as its heroes and primary source of wealth.
Typh’s spell, on the other hand, seems to only concern itself with the sexual role. And while Typh is no longer quite as dismissive of the female role as she was, the very strong response to her attempts to take on masculine clothing show she still regards the male and female roles as different. She’s right on that point–men and women are indeed different, and their social roles are meant to support and take advantage of their biological differences. But there is more than one way a society can shape those roles, while still distinguishing between them.
Until Typh can acknowledge the worth of the female role–which is not a warrior’s role, far from it–until she can accept female strengths and weaknesses, she will have no leverage with the curse.
The role of a knight is more on the defensive, protective side of being a warrior, as opposed to the aggressive, raiding nature of barbarian warriors.
And what knights protect is exactly a safe haven for women, children, and non-warrior males, such as tradesmen and farmers. Accepting the knightly ideal demands the recognition of women as being necessary to the ongoing function of any society, and therefore being worthy of protection. But, as highly regarded as knights may be, they are not the point of society. The point is raising of crops, the free flow of commerce and ideas, and the safety and well-being of the people. (Um, see the preamble to the American Constitution for a good summary–though Urtica’s Realm is itself a long far way from that ideal.)
I emphasize that I am speaking of ideals and generalities here; there are noble barbarians and brutal knights. But those are the two poles drawing on Typh at this time, and I think what Scott is showing us is her recognizing women as partners in society, rather than as mere broodmares and servants of fierce men.
“I hate it already.” 🙂 That’s our girl.
You know, the being judged thing is normal, right?
Most people aren’t interested in who you actually are, they want you to fit into their preconceived notion of you – and get grumpy when you aren’t what *they* want you to be.
It’s true for everyone; white, black, male, female, gay, straight, cat, dog, whatever.
Admittedly it is tougher for some than others, and the degree of judgement varies by the person making the judgement, but to one degree or another it is something everyone has to deal with.
If someone gets to know you, they may start to accept you more as you, but they will never completely get over that you aren’t exactly what they wasn’t you to be – unless maybe they expect nothing of you.
In this case, Typhan-knee in her old body would still be judged by her appearance, it would just be different. Everyone in the kingdom would see him and assume him stupid, uncultured, brutal, violent, a murderer, a rapist, misogynistic, and every other stereotype they have about ‘barbarians’. This assessment would be made on sight alone. Doesn’t matter that he actually was a lot of those things (but not all), the assumption was just on appearances with no knowledge.
Same thing in our world. We dress up when we want to impress others; they see us neatly groomed, well dressed, clean, etc. and we are trying to make others make the assumption that we are upstanding people so they will view us favourably. Doesn’t matter if we really are a lazy slob (or whatever) we are attempting to manipulate the other person’s human tendency to snap judgements in our favour.
But usually such snap judgements aren’t in our favour, particularly if we appear to be from a different group or ‘tribe’ than them.
Loving the panel 😀
@50srefugee and Eric – Hey guys I actually completely agree with your comments and you both took it farther than I thought it would go. They are completely valid and reasonable. I still will disagree on a few things though, firstly while a knight does do all of those things such as protecting both the nobility and the common people technically as they protect the borders, they still basically enforce the commands of the monarchy as they become vassals and nobles in their own right, doing this does not always allow for a flow of commerce and knowledge and the obstruction and outright destruction of these concepts – all carried out by knights before and even during the ‘Age of Chivalry’. Also, there is another component to being a knight and that is religious one. A monarch can ‘anoint’ a knight, which technically Urtica did to Typh and charging her with the protection of Peonie, but they must also go through a process through the Church, though this being a fantasy setting, might not require that, especially considering Urtica’s stance with the Church and Typh sure as hell isn’t going to care about the dealing with the Church of Rem. Going back to her deal with Urtica to protect P-Cups, she didn’t do it out of some sort of moral conviction, she wanted gold and though Typh has certainly began to appreciate her companions, she is not doing this out of some decree but just that she will protect her friends and a rather substantial pay and hey quoting Gendry in GoT (HBO, still need to catch up on the books) “You don’t have to be a knight to buy armor” and so even though Typh wears the palace armor briefly, it sure isn’t because she is going to be joining Urtica’s court. So I do not see this as a case of anything to do with either being a knight or a barbarian.
It is just a part of reconciling her past and her current experiences by going through these adventures with these particular set of companions and also reconciling and connecting with her family and what they have had to teach her though their own experiences.
I apologize if my clinging to a single phrase would cause uh… discord. And definitely addressed the different spectrums ‘knightood’ can take. It is also true that perceptions based on appearance hold true on our world or in this world, and it is certainly true Typh cares about the perceptions of men and women based on visual cues I don’t think she cares as much about the notion of knighthood and Ash Tribe culture. Though I can be totally off on my understanding of the character and her thoughts and motivations.
Though clearly both Typh and Wyll have an evolved sense on Ash culture and are trying to modify and change it in their own subtle ways that not everyone in either the tribe or outside are recognizing. Again, Diana actually enforcing the soft border from possible encroaching Rus even though the fishers think she is only there and not on the ‘raiding parties’ because she is ‘just a woman’ and could be the greatest hunter if not for Melan-knee.
Hrmmm… my tangents are running on tangents and I am rambling. Tired, but clearly not bored.
@TajZ: “I apologize if my clinging to a single phrase would cause uh… discord.”
See Sam Adams’ “animating contest of freedom”; it’s all good.