<!– Global site tag (gtag.js) – Google Analytics –>
<script async src=”https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=UA-22856846-2″></script>
<script>
window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || [];
function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);}
gtag(‘js’, new Date());
gtag(‘config’, ‘UA-22856846-2’);
</script>
<!– Global site tag (gtag.js) – Google Analytics –>
<script async src=”https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=UA-22856846-7″></script>
<script>
window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || [];
function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);}
gtag(‘js’, new Date());
Starting February 1st ALL new Exiern pages will post ONLY to Exiern.com and Our Patreon. Please read and support us there!
Swords, Sorcery, And Then Some!
Howdy, New Readers! Thanks for reading Exiern!
Written by Scott T. Hicken with art by Antipus, the comic updates Mondays. Please check out the Archive to enjoy the earlier adventures of Typh and Peonie!
Exiern contains mature themes and is best for readers 18+.
Been doing some thinking about our group conversation on the last page about an alternate world where Typh took up that offer to be queen instead of turning it out down. I’ve also been doing a bit of idle speculation about Dark Reflections for a bit too (now up more than 700 places to 830 woo!).
(The below is just idle what if’s I was thinking of. Any ideas anyone else has? One of the great things about alternate universes is that you can just run wild).
Depending on where you’ve already planned to go, for all I know, you may already have a perfectly good alternate world for that scenario for a few reasons: For starters, Dark Side Tiff isn’t the same as Typh Prime here, DS Tiffany actually had her memories and brain completely rewritten. For all we know, she may decide to stay the way she is because for all intents and purposes, she might as well be a completely different person than her pre transformation self and what she’s hearing for all we know may just sound like to her that she’s hearing about any other person.
Then there’s Peonie herself, for all we know, her extended imprisonment might have made her quite bitter and twisted (Faden seems to have much less of a sense of humour and a much bigger sadistic streak here). Maybe she manages to outplay Faden somehow and when they get back to the kingdom, she outmaneuvres the king and has Tiffany act as her enforcer and they take over the kingdom. After all, since it’s a “Dark Reflection”, the usual heroes could be villains but no reason it can’t be unremittingly grim all the time, comic potential abounds here during that part of the proceedings.
Also, it seems like Dark Reflections and this Prime Universe each branched off from a common past but given the seemingly random fluctuations in the past, it might lead to that universe having its own distinct past. We might get to meet Tiffany’s 3 sisters in this continuity as they weren’t retroactively deleted, Brother Thomas might be around as antagonist – and quite satisfied being Brother Thomas (and have hair).
As it is, Dark Side Typh already seems different (funnily enough, we’ve seen a lot more of him that the Prime one even in just the opening act). Seems to be possible he’s a different orientation to his Prime self (he’s certainly taken more interest in Peonie here than in the entirety of the Prime Universe). He’s also a more practical dresser (look, he has a utility belt with pouches to put stuff in!) … well except for the scarf which is good strangle material.
If there’s ever a crossover between the strips, it’d be potentially fun. Usually alternates aren’t radically different, potentially tonnes of dramatic and comedy fodder if they were and they ended up meeting. Reaction shots alone would be worth the price of admission.
Except Neils (Niels) and Bohr. They have to be exactly the same in any universe. I’m sure that’s like an unbreakable rule or something.
True, it’s very good but they better get on with it as the church probably won’t overthrow itself.
I’m a bit worried, as an AI who will remain nameless recently said “You didn’t think it was going to be that easy, did you?” in a big budget film that will also remain nameless.
On the one hand, the new proxy head of the church; you’d think he’d suspect something was up as after all he did back in the day set up fake blackmail material if needed to take down people investigating him, including the now queen. He might still be suspicious of her and especially this particular event, the timing and the king being involved. Or even if not specifically, just generally paranoid and on the lookout as a matter of course.
On the other hand, the king does seem to plan for multiple eventualities. If Typh had accepted the king’s marriage proposal, that’s a win. Typh not accepting was a different kind of win.
My complete guess is that this plan isn’t completely smooth sailing (you’d think something is about to go wrong or at least not as planned) but it all works out in the end overall.
Wow, so while Theresa is perfectly happy with her female form, Typh has got serious gender dysphoria issues, and nobody to relate with. OUCH! And there are no therapists. Yeah.
So is Tiff just forgetting/forgiving/etc. about that whole religious genocide thing that Terry has been mockingly unrepentant about before? Because that still matters, as does Terry’s ongoing western imperialist style sense of superiority to northerners, which is also a problem.
@RandomSpectator Ultimately Teresa isn’t responsible for that.
Though it does kind of works into what Typhan-Knee is saying. Teresa always picks on Typhan-Knee instead of being sympathetic or comforting like the friend she claims to be.
Because that’s the thing, dispite the things she has said to Typhan-Knee, Teresa still claims the two are friends.
Does one writer pass on to the next one any information about ideas they had or directions they were heading. Not to tell the next person what to do of course but just as something else to consider that they might not have thought of otherwise as just one example? Basically, is there anything like a writer’s room where past and present writers float the odd idea or two past each other on occasion or is it one person steps out completely and the other takes over with completely their own ideas based on where they are starting from.
@Shan… when I stepped down, I gave Scott the outlines and themes I had already composed, but I have not contributed in any way, shape, or form beyond that.
I think we have each taken the material left to us that never made it on page and used it to help guide the overall unseen world building and mythology of Exiern, but not let it constrict us in the story we each want to tell, while respecting everything already put to page.
There is one thing we still cant be sure of, and that’s how much of her discomfort is really attributed to her upbringing- and repression of her identity, ‘white magic is attributed to healing and defense after all. That said in either case, she is completely right here
I think this page is really helpful because it really makes clear the different characters’ positions on their situation. As things currently stand, Typh wants to change back while Teresa most definitely does not.
Given that unlike our world, there’s magic and instant transformations, that also leaves the door open to more possible outcomes.
First off with Typh, if a lot more time passed and there had been no success in restoring Typh’s original body; what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body. Is it possible Typh would consider taking that option if enough time had passed and there was an increasing inability to cope? I guess that is a potential dilemma for anyone in this situation if it went on long enough.
Then, I guess there’s people who find themselves in this situation of instantly being changed unintentionally but ultimately decide to run with it for various possible reasons. As of yet, we don’t know where Pip has ended up on this spectrum. Given it’s spillover from the same magic that led to Typh’s current situation, Pip might be just as stuck. Ultimately, Pip may take a different view on the whole situation
One potential opportunity for Pip though, as it looks like Teresa now has the job of recruiting women (though how Pip identifies now is as yet unknown) into the Church of Rem, so maybe joining like the original case was going to be before you know what happened is once again an option. Since the character is reappearing one day, maybe that’s how it is going to happen.
On the subject of Pip returning which you’ve confirmed, will Ce’s amazing psychedelic pants also be making an appearance? Mysteriously absent in Ce’s last appearance, I figure since Pip vanquished Ce in combat, Pip should get all of Ce’s stuff, not just the reflection.
The idea also seems rather offensive, because it sounds like those programs in real life that try to make gay people straight.
I also don’t think Teresa would have liked such a suggestion when she was still in her old body. Mind alterations just seem wrong and don’t seem like a good fix at all.
Well, for starters this is a world of magic and mind alterations can and do happen (at no point was I even thinking of those odious conversion therapies we have in real life).
Best example I can think of as I said earlier was Dark Reflections Tiffany who unlike her counterpart here has definitely had her entire mind rewritten including all her past memories (and apparently replaced with a copy of the American Beauty movie among other things). Of course that was totally involuntary.
I think it’s highly unlikely Typh would agree to such a thing as that kind of mental alteration (I was never talking about past memory mind wiping in this case btw) but if enough time passed and the situation became sufficiently intolerable, it could be an interesting dilemma for a character in this situation to at least think about it for a bit instead of instantly rejecting it out of hand. Obviously the character isn’t at that point now but in the future, who knows? In this kind of world, anything is possible.
@Bandit Repression of personal truths due to societal expectations can be a very powerful thing- especially when that truth warrants significant discrimination- can last decades in some cases. Also consider the ‘curse’ is entirely non-offensive magic-yet I consider putting the soul in the wrong body very wishy washy. We know the curse works by changing ones gender then finding the body that best suits them- yet all it can’t agree on a final form for Tiff, outside from that stupid strand of hair
It’s worth noting that for the best part that people in this world are for the best part a lot less discriminatory than our world. Most people don’t seem to care at all about Typh’s past and Teresa’s trouble with the church seems to be more general misogyny and that seems to have subsided somewhat after they were told to cut it out. The mere fact that the king considered both Typh and Teresa for queen (and married the latter) shows that most people, right up to the very top don’t have a problem with it (after all, we haven’t seen any signs of protest about the royal wedding).
** to clarify, this world seems to be a lot less discriminatory *in this area* (from the Northerners right to down south). Plenty of good old fashioned racism and the like floating around though.
@Shan That’s not true though, we have seen that there is a lot of xenophobia, misogyny, classism and general bigotry in this setting too.
And what Teresa went through wasn’t just misogyny, which was not subdued, but also transphobia. Remember how her colleagues treated her for wanting to remain in her new body.
@Mhalperm It’s not wishy washy, it’s what it is. Typhan-Knee is a gay man that is currently in a body that doesn’t match his gender identity. That’s what the past couple of strips have made clear and why he’s mad that Teresa has not been more comforting.
He accepted that he’s gay, which he had trouble doing before. So it really doesn’t look like he’s repressing his personal truth now.
The key point about a potential future scenario I was speculating about was that it would be completely voluntary and not forced.
As time goes on, if there’s hasn’t been a solution to this situation, it may well end up doing quite a number on the mind of the person in it. In Typh’s case, I was just speculating about what might happen if someone came along and said even though they couldn’t change the body, they could realign Typh’s mind to match the present body. Basically, not deleting any memories but giving Typh a female brain to go with it.
The dilemma would be for Typh whether to take the offer and finally cease to be in turmoil or hold out with the home things can be restored to how they were sometime in the future, could they last that long or is it not worth the risk of a possible breakdown if it goes on too long?
I made the point of not using the words “fix”, “correct” or “cure” specifically to make it clear that I wasn’t talking about there being any coercion in any way shape or form.
Given that the British Royal family is still wrestling with the logistics of a Catholic marrying into the royal family (never mind being king or queen), the fact that the king was able to marry Teresa and make her queen with no evident signs of opposition gives their society one up on us at least.
When it first came out that Typh was gay, i was not really fan of it.
Mainly because of the issues that Typh is bringing up on this page.
But now, it’s actually a rather nice plot twist and has potential to actually become something interesting.
Wether it was pre planned or not, don’t care, good show either way.
On the subject of alternate worlds, do you think there’s ever a chance the gang might ever visit ours? Maybe it started as just comedy metatextual references when things like Euro Disney, Sharpies, Leeroy Jenkins and the like were mentioned but with statements like “Wookies … whatever that is” maybe it’s a sign that elements of our universe are starting to bleed into Exiern and people are just starting to notice. (I wonder if it includes using a turn of phrase like “It sucks.”? Sounds like something that very much came from us).
You’d know best but I’d guess if it ever were to happen, it’d be better as a side story instead of in the main comic as tonally it might be a bit jarring I suppose. For all we know, it could be so traumatic an experience that everyone agrees to not talk about it in the main comic (their very own Noodle Incident). I can see our world having that effect on people, even ones from worlds filled with with magic and other seemingly impossible happenings.
“So is Tiff just forgetting/forgiving/etc. about that whole religious genocide thing that Terry has been mockingly unrepentant about before? Because that still matters, as does Terry’s ongoing western imperialist style sense of superiority to northerners, which is also a problem.”
Note that imperial self-belief in superior culture is a *general* characteristic of imperial agrarian cultures, not just western, or North/South. At one time Tacitus was describing how Germans were too dumb to make good slaves, until their freedmen descendants accepted the culture of the Hellenistic world, that Rome told itself it was protecting. Meanwhile Chinese were telling each other that that the blue-eyed red-haired demons of the steppes could even be decent, if they just accepted the culture of the Jade Emperor as the Yueh southeastern peoples had after the Chin conquered them and the Han Dynasty “civilized ” them.
“I see now the strength of women, that they can do everything men can.”
No, Tiff, you still don’t get it. You still don’t understand what you must to ease the curse’s hold on you.
It’s not that women can do what men specialize in, things that require size, strength, and aggression); typically they can’t. (Although there are exceptions; women who can do those things as well as most men, and better than some.)
It’s that women can do things men cannot, and do other things that most women can do better than most men.
She still has trouble respecting women acting in their proper role; only the male role is acceptable to her, even in a female body.
@Shan: “what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body. Is it possible Typh would consider taking that option if enough time had passed and there was an increasing inability to cope?”
We’ve seen evidence that the curse itself might have the power to do that; she was getting kinda girly at the victory party. But she was not happy with that, and Peonie and Urtica were dismayed at the change in both her demeanor and even her size (she got shorter).
It would be interesting to see how she’d react in the presence of a male she likes and trusts, who might be able to get her to relax her guard a bit.
@Bandit: “Typhan-Knee is a gay man…”
Uh huh, a gay man who was within seconds of raping an adolescent boy. Even if his object of desire was male, he still saw sex as an outlet for violent dominance.
No wonder she can’t accept her female body, or the female role. She knows what a straight man like her would do to her, given the chance.
@Shan… I don’t want to presume to speak for Scott on this matter, but for me:
“what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body…”
Personally, I wouldn’t take a story down that road, but if I did, it’d one grim effin’ fable, on par with the “pray (shock) the gay away” methods used by some extreme religious organizations.
I feel, to some extent, that characters (even if a fantasy setting) need to be able to resonate with people. There’s got to be something that people can experience and be able to think, “Yeah, I know that feeling. I can relate to that struggle.”
A fairly significant part of the reason I went with the “lazy” reveal that Tiffany was gay rather than one of the many more elaborate theories from fans was because of that attempt to resonate. We (as in real people) don’t really have the ability to “reshape” our minds to any great degree, at least not in the way that we can “choose” or sexual orientation or our gender identity.
My iteration of Tiffany was supposed to be for those people who DO feel like they are in the wrong body, and don’t really have a clean way out… something that can’t entirely be solved by just a sex change.
@50srefugee: “Uh huh, a gay man who was within seconds of raping an adolescent boy. Even if his object of desire was male, he still saw sex as an outlet for violent dominance.”
You’re right. Typhan-Knee did. And I didn’t shy away from that brutal upbringing that the young barbarian was subjected to. While there are some things that a person CAN’T change, there are many things that they CAN, one of them being respect or discovering empathy that had been beaten into submission.
Tiffany is struggling with becoming a better person. It’s not easy, it’s not a quick epiphany… but it can happen. I think on THAT score you’ll find Scott is pretty much in lock-step with my intentions.
Well, that was only part of the way, sort of subconscious and reversible once Typh became aware of what was happening. If it was a voluntary and complete process, presumably that would be different (and possibly permanent)
I guess it could be like what’s happened in Dark Reflections (except that was obviously not voluntary) with a complete mind scrub and rewrite. For all intents and purposes, Faden may well have created a whole new person. In fact if Alternate Peonie hadn’t said anything, it’s quite likely Dark Side Tiffany would stay that way and have no reason to think different.
As it is, we don’t know the impact of her hearing about her past, it might just be like hearing the history of a completely different person and not change her in the slightest let alone make her want to be changed back. So far, what Peonie told her hasn’t appeared to jog any real memories in the slightest. She could also remain evil on top of all that. Could be interesting if the end result is that this whole quest to find out what happened just leads to her overthrowing the boss and ultimately taking over the Southern Kingdom (One way to do it is ‘rescue’ Peonie, pretend to get her memory back and now be ‘good’, this time take the king’s offer of marriage and then take over from within. Double points if Peonie helps because she’s been contaminated by Faden crawling about in her head and hence also making her evil. Hey, it’s called Dark Reflections, so things are meant to be … well … dark).
@Chemiclord: “You’re right. Typhan-Knee did. And I didn’t shy away from that brutal upbringing that the young barbarian was subjected to. While there are some things that a person CAN’T change, there are many things that they CAN, one of them being respect or discovering empathy that had been beaten into submission.
Tiffany is struggling with becoming a better person. It’s not easy, it’s not a quick epiphany… but it can happen.”
All true, and I am fully cognizant of that. And we’ve certainly seen Tiffany’s remorse over what she did, and her increasing empathy. But my point was Tiffany’s view of the event, what she remembers sex between a strong man and a physically weaker person being about, and how that might be making her resistant to accept the weaker role.
What’s been growing in my mind over this entire arc, since the brass bikini episode, is a desire to see Tiffany accept weakness, to trust someone enough to show it to him, intimately. To accept that not being physically intimidating is not despicable.
I think that’s a necessary step in her discovery of empathy, that there other kinds of strength than the physical.
===
Also, by the way, thanks for calling the main character here “Tiffany” when you are referring to her female state. I’ve been dabbling with “Typhan-Knee” and its variations out of what I now perceive as a false courtesy.
She’s Tiffany, and a “she”, and to break the curse’s hold on her, she’s going to have to accept that.
As I believe I’ve said previously, if my view is correct, the curse has something of the koan nature.
===
Of course, this is just what I want given the current state of the story. Scott might well do something completely different, but just as satisfying.
The big difference I tried to highlight was unlike those odious conversion therapies (which are forced upon from outside the person against their will) is that it would be an option freely offered.
One of the complaints that badwebcomics had was that Typh didn’t seemed to be at all troubled by the body modification and acted like it wasn’t a big deal. I don’t think they read far enough because the impression I got was that it initially wasn’t a big deal. The princess had been rescued and the evil wizard captured, it’s a society full of magic where people and things are often shape changed and it shouldn’t be a big deal to find someone to reverse it.
The problems start for the character when realisation dawns that it isn’t going to be an easy fix and hence the accompanying breakdown further highlighted by exposition girl Mackenzie (that was all your stuff wasn’t it? I thought that was really well written and quite funny).
Now I guess it depends at this point how badly Typh is affected. If muddling along being less than satisfied with life but being able to cope is one thing but if it becomes increasingly intolerable to the point of the character believing it will eventually end in a nervous breakdown or worse; well I was just postulating what would the character do if offered a choice that would save their sanity before it possibly snapped if it seemed there was no chance their body could be restored.
I have no idea what they’d actually choose though, I just figured as a dilemma, well it’s a big one. As a choice it would be voluntary, well as much as anything in this situation could be. Maybe it would be better calling it a gamble, take this less than ideal solution now or hold out on the hope that the preferred resolution turns up while there’s still time.
(If you want to hear of a really bleak situation, there’s at least one place in the world where in real life, people in exactly the same situation as Typh have a choice to either undergo the change Typh did – through less than elegant medical science … or be put to death if they’re found out and caught. )
I’ve been dodging pronouns as much as possible as I wasn’t sure where the characters stood for a long time. I originally thought it was likely that the original spell tapped into Typh’s subconscious as to what Typh really wanted and hence the effects that even caught Faden by surprise and also why the magic book just filled page after page with HA when Typh asked about how to reverse the effects. Most things after that seem to suggest the exact opposite though. I guess strictly speaking, going on especially this last page, we should refer to Typh with male pronouns and never use the name Tiffany but I’ve very courageously dodged the issue as much as possible and eventually settled on using Typh for a name. As it is, depending on who and what you read, names and pronouns are all over the shop.
Dark Reflections is different, due to what seems to happened there, I call that character Tiffany and use female pronouns because as I said upthread, for all intents and purposes, that seems to be a whole new person built from the ground up. I may or may not have to revise that statement depending on both future developments and how exactly Faden made it happen in this reality.
@Shan that is exactly why I think that there is a possibility much of Typh Prime’s discomfort is from self repression, it could be either really, but everything about it indicates that it acts on Typh’s subconscious- when Typh thinks of women she thinks on how powerless his/her mother was, and at the core Typh is a very dominant personality, he/she didn’t show that they were uncomfortable much until they were out of danger, and has only shown it much when combat isn’t expected- when it made the body weaker and more fragile looking.
In tangentially related news, in response to a question about whether she’d like to appear on Doctor Who, Hayley Atwell tweeted she’d like to play the Doctor. Regardless of how serious she was being, the Internet seems up with the idea. I’m up for it for what that’s worth.
It’d better be. Peter Capaldi is probably the biggest fan of the show out of all the people who’ve played the part, even more so than David Tennant. David was also a huge fan growing up but even he didn’t write to the Doctor Who production offices as a teenager asking for the president of the fan club to be removed and replaced with himself, nor did the secretary who handled all the mail ever suggest that she wouldn’t mind if David was exterminated by the Daleks.
Also, Atwell has Agent Carter and a few more Marvel projects that will presumably take a few more years as well. My personal first choice for a female Doctor is Ruth Wilson (she’s excellent in Luther with Idris Elba), then Tatiana Maslany (who could play both the Doctor, the companion(s) and probably a villain or two) and I hadn’t thought of it before but with Atwell being mentioned, I’ll put her in number 3.
(As for Maslany, even if she was interested, I doubt the controversy would allow it. Having a woman play the Doctor is one thing but a Canadian or other non British nationality is likely to still be a bridge too far).
Sorry, to clarify I mean *It’d better be that Peter Capaldi stays a few more years*. It really can make a big difference when the lead is such a huge fan of the material.
The Doctor’s an interesting character which I thought was at least slightly relevant to what’s going on in this story here in that you have a character that has a continuity of memory but periodically changes his body. The other thing that changes however is the mind insofar as each Doctor remembers what the previous one did but wouldn’t have done the same things in those situations because they’re now different people for all intents and purposes who think differently. Case in point, Matt Smith to Peter Capaldi, no way would Capaldi’s Doctor do some of the things Smith did and vice versa, there’s quite a contrast.
So far, that hasn’t happened here as such with the characters here, Typh and Teresa have changed over time (which all people do to some degree, just maybe not as much of a degree in most cases perhaps) but there hasn’t been a complete break, I guess it would be interesting to see that happen in a character in this world. The closest to this might be the Dark Reflections Tiffany once we she what she’s like after she gets all her memories back and what she does with them, I suppose. Will she remain what effect is a distinct entity from her past or will she start to merge with her former identity and even try to get back to it like her Prime counterpart?
No, The Doctor is a male, just because he can regenerate into a new body doesn’t change the fact that that body is male humanoid
A possibility for why The Master became Missy may have to do with the fact that The Master had run out of regenerations (or The Council had permanently removed that ability) and he become she may have been a way to ‘reboot’ that ability
There is nothing to stop Atwell from being a female Timelord (or Timelady), seeing how The Doctor(s) brought back Galifrey
Doctor Who has been a multi decade night at the improv. It was originally thought it was only going to run for 6 weeks at one point. It wasn’t until William Hartnell had to leave that they came up with the concept of regeneration (the change to Patrick Troughton is the only time you’ll see the clothes regenerate too). The Time Lords weren’t even thought of until near the end of his run.
The thing about Doctor Who and the character of the Doctor is that there’s never been any hard and fast rules, they’re always making things up as they go along. The concept of what would appear to us to be changing the outward appearance of gender first came up when the Corsair was mentioned in the Matt Smith episode “The Doctor’s Wife” as a Time Lord who’d had both outwardly appearing male and female regenerations. There was also the mention of it being a possibility in the Night of the Doctor though that was special circumstances. The Master’s been a renegade for a long time and the present situation could be due to the fact that this character has always done things a lot differently to the rest of Time Lord society.
The key thing is, the Doctor isn’t human, so conventional rules don’t apply. If the makers ever decided to go down that path, there’s really nothing in universe to stop them. Closest approximation in this story might be the Nix (Ce). May look human but most definitely is not and the changes in this case were a practical case of being able to do the job more effectively. There may come a time when the Doctor is in a similar situation and that’s the solution (like when the War Doctor was created).
@Shan Maybe, but just because they got married does not necessarily mean there was no opposition. Plus the King did have to pull some strings to prevent Teresa from being executive for being who she is.
On a side note, i appreciate that Urtica and Peonie are staying out of the conversation here. Not surprising from Urticaria admittedly, but there was a time where Peonie might have butted in an attempt to help.
@50srefuge No, i think Typhan-Knee does understand perfectly.Because women can do anything men can do, sometimes even better. That view shows that he has dropped his misogynistic views and now has a more progressive and open minded world view.
As for sex, i don’t see why he’d have to be in “weaker” role if (which is an odd way to put it if you mean being the submissive/botton).
“Being on top” isn’t exclusive and couples even switch constantly. Plus for all we know, Typhan-Knee might find a guy that prefers Typhan on top.
@50srefuge And technically “Tiffany” isn’t Typhan’s name in any real way since it’s just people misprouncing his actual name, which is also annoying when it happens in real life.
Well, the point I’ve always made in my What If scenario is that it’d be Typh’s choice in the first place. It might seem like an unfair choice due to the circumstances but it would be voluntary. As opposed to a few other webcomics I’ve seen which are set in what seems to be innocuously innocent settings like high schools and ordinary offices where much, much worse things are done than anything that has ever been done here in that regards.
@ chemiclord
I forgot to add in my reply to you than even though the dilemma I postulated was a more fantastical one than what you were aiming for (choose to change your brain if you can’t change back your body as you can’t take it any more), even if that in itself isn’t something people in our world can’t do, in a general sense the idea of a difficult choice between two less than ideal options is something people definitely can relate to.
In fact as it currently stands, the only character we know of apart from Typh (which was sort of an unintended and definitely unexpected results of an attack) who may be stuck in a situation they don’t want to be is Pip (and that was an accident more than anything I suppose) but until that character reappears, we’re not going to know their views on the subject.
Well, I guess strictly speaking if we’re applying the social conventions of our world, we should say Typhan-Knee is *his* legitimate name (and a male name in the Northern language) and that Tiffany is a similar sounding female name in the Southern dialect – all as evidenced by the quite different translations for them both as given to us several times in the story.
@Guesticus i did and his name Typhan-Knee. Peonie only started calling him “Tiffany ” because it sounds like his actual name, but pronounced differently. Just like his brother’s name Melan-Knee sounds like Melanie.
But as it has been stated several in the Webcomic, the proper way to pronounce his name is Typhan-Knee. “Tiffany” is just people misprouncing his barabarian name. That is the point and why he now insist on people pronouncing it correctly.
Plus he never legally changed his name to “Tiffany” anyway. Oh and if that’s not thing in this setting, then what his name is would be up to him, which he already stated his preference to Typhan-Knee. So either way.
@Shan That’s my point though, he sneezed and got turn back, but we never learned what happened after. Did the priest undo the spell again or is the priest stuck like Typhan-Knee is?
Well, that’s my guess following the chain of events. Same name, so I guess it must be the same character. I’ve seen this question come up before in past comment sections I’m sure, I’m surprised no-one picked up on it.
Something else I’ve never seen mentioned is how Captain Phi is no longer a Captain and is now a Lieutenant. I guess if he keeps playing his cards right though he might get to one day marry Princess Peonie to make up for it. Mind you, as much as I like Phi, I’m still hoping she marries Typh, even if they can’t return Typh back to original state. Doesn’t seem likely though.
Maybe that’s something that’ll happen in Dark Reflections though after they evilly take over the kingdom – to do more evil. I know I keep saying it but Dark Reflections kind of has to be a dark reflection of the original strip as after all, it’s in the name and everything.
I’ve got another one for you. I couldn’t really tell what colour the eyes were when the priests first appeared as drawn by the previous artist as I don’t think they were ever close enough but when the current one started drawing, initially Teresa’s eyes were brown or hazel and then at some point switched to blue and stayed that way.
I know there’s things that started as continuity mishaps (accidental omissions by the artist like that necklace) that have gone on to be plot points (shifts in the aether altering the past) so I wonder if this started as a colouring error or was always intended to be deliberate and either way, whatever it is now, what does it mean?
Whatever colour they were in earlier strips, I couldn’t tell for sure. What’s also interesting about this strip is that Typh says almost the exact same things there (right down to the poking!) as here but it obviously didn’t seem to get through *at all*.
Does Denver have memory problems from too many blows to the head?
I’m guessing either continuity snafu or deliberate alteration to create a new plot point about Typh’s ability to read. Anyway the idea of a continually shifting past due to the Aether is an excellent way to eliminate all discontinuities from the smallest to the biggest ones. You can say it was all planned that way. It can also retroactively lead to some exciting new plot ideas (I believe the necklace and its appearing and disappearing turned into one.)
@Shan Makes sense, as the previous page established Teresa assumed Typhan-Knee’s distaste was because of the accusation Typhan made, that’s probably why it’s the only thing Teresa seems to remember about that argument.
I’ve always wondered if Typh’s frequent stream of insults towards Teresa was a general one that people who didn’t like the church made towards priests in general or whether Typh had heard specific thanks to the slander campaign by the leadership, ironically using accusations against the people actually trying to clean up the church from that very behaviour.
I’m guessing the former is much more likely though as I couldn’t see it being very likely that Typh had heard of anyone except maybe the very top leadership and was just being generally insulting with no specific knowledge in mind.
@Shan It’s more likely that a lot of people already suspect what Coriander and his priest do, they just don’t have any proof. After all, that is why Urtica and Teresa started this scheme, to find evidence.
Question about this page, do you think the henchman we only see from behind holding Peonie over his shoulder is Vandel, who we see in Dark Reflections? We don’t see him doing anything in this strip which makes me wonder if Typh eliminated him before we even saw the start of the first confrontation between Typh and Faden in this strip, something that for whatever reason didn’t happen in Dark Reflections.
On the other hand, maybe the alternate universes started to divergence a bit earlier than it seems. In both stories, Faden starts to say he’s going to summon a demon but in Dark Reflections, he changes his mind and decides to do the job himself.
However, in Dark Reflections, after the fight between Faden and Typhan-Knee seemingly ends with Faden’s dismemberment, Vandel bursts in saying that “the barbarian has escaped”. So maybe in trying to break into Asylum, Typh was captured, imprisoned and escaped while in this Prime universe, Typh just broke in, killed Vandel on the way and then fought Faden. Any thoughts?
Then there’s the nature of the sword in Dark Reflections, do you think that Typh’s sword is a different magic sword with different powers than the one in this universe? Certainly seems like it might be, it has a different name and properties and everything. Makes you wonder up to when both universes had a past in common and with random changes in the past of this universe (Typh’s disappearing sisters), you’d imagine different changes in the past of the Dark Reflections universe so in effect, both universes could end up breaking completely free from each other. Then there’s our universe, seems like a lot of contamination is leaking into both. It’s just cultural terminology that seems wildly out of place for now but who knows where it will stop …
Is this going to go even deeper into the identity politics horseshit than Chemiclord’s arc?
If a body still has both hands, feet, all fingers and toes, eyes, ears, nose, mouth… all functional… then what does it matter what is between the legs? It is no more than a flipped coin. One way you get the inny set, the other way you get the outty set. There is no “wrong answer”.
And here I was under the impression that the whole problem throughout the entirety of this webcomic was simply having things changed that one had got used to. A new body is like having to move home suddenly… and the new home doesn’t have any of the familiar parts that endeared the old one… but it is still a home, and one can get used to it…. until it would be weirder to switch back.
Be a Producer!Your name/title with an optional SFW hyperlink will be posted prominently HERE following the close of the month! You’ll also receive monthly mailings from Exiern’s author, Scott T. Hicken!
You think you have all of your dialogue figured out and placed, and then someone goes and draws a beautiful fire…
Are the speech balloons flammable?
Awesome. Just awesome
Scott,
Been doing some thinking about our group conversation on the last page about an alternate world where Typh took up that offer to be queen instead of turning it out down. I’ve also been doing a bit of idle speculation about Dark Reflections for a bit too (now up more than 700 places to 830 woo!).
(The below is just idle what if’s I was thinking of. Any ideas anyone else has? One of the great things about alternate universes is that you can just run wild).
Depending on where you’ve already planned to go, for all I know, you may already have a perfectly good alternate world for that scenario for a few reasons: For starters, Dark Side Tiff isn’t the same as Typh Prime here, DS Tiffany actually had her memories and brain completely rewritten. For all we know, she may decide to stay the way she is because for all intents and purposes, she might as well be a completely different person than her pre transformation self and what she’s hearing for all we know may just sound like to her that she’s hearing about any other person.
Then there’s Peonie herself, for all we know, her extended imprisonment might have made her quite bitter and twisted (Faden seems to have much less of a sense of humour and a much bigger sadistic streak here). Maybe she manages to outplay Faden somehow and when they get back to the kingdom, she outmaneuvres the king and has Tiffany act as her enforcer and they take over the kingdom. After all, since it’s a “Dark Reflection”, the usual heroes could be villains but no reason it can’t be unremittingly grim all the time, comic potential abounds here during that part of the proceedings.
Also, it seems like Dark Reflections and this Prime Universe each branched off from a common past but given the seemingly random fluctuations in the past, it might lead to that universe having its own distinct past. We might get to meet Tiffany’s 3 sisters in this continuity as they weren’t retroactively deleted, Brother Thomas might be around as antagonist – and quite satisfied being Brother Thomas (and have hair).
As it is, Dark Side Typh already seems different (funnily enough, we’ve seen a lot more of him that the Prime one even in just the opening act). Seems to be possible he’s a different orientation to his Prime self (he’s certainly taken more interest in Peonie here than in the entirety of the Prime Universe). He’s also a more practical dresser (look, he has a utility belt with pouches to put stuff in!) … well except for the scarf which is good strangle material.
If there’s ever a crossover between the strips, it’d be potentially fun. Usually alternates aren’t radically different, potentially tonnes of dramatic and comedy fodder if they were and they ended up meeting. Reaction shots alone would be worth the price of admission.
Except Neils (Niels) and Bohr. They have to be exactly the same in any universe. I’m sure that’s like an unbreakable rule or something.
*no reason it *HAS* to be unremittingly grim I mean *sigh*.
Yay, Typhan-Knee!
A beautifully-phrased and non-combative explanation.
True, it’s very good but they better get on with it as the church probably won’t overthrow itself.
I’m a bit worried, as an AI who will remain nameless recently said “You didn’t think it was going to be that easy, did you?” in a big budget film that will also remain nameless.
On the one hand, the new proxy head of the church; you’d think he’d suspect something was up as after all he did back in the day set up fake blackmail material if needed to take down people investigating him, including the now queen. He might still be suspicious of her and especially this particular event, the timing and the king being involved. Or even if not specifically, just generally paranoid and on the lookout as a matter of course.
On the other hand, the king does seem to plan for multiple eventualities. If Typh had accepted the king’s marriage proposal, that’s a win. Typh not accepting was a different kind of win.
My complete guess is that this plan isn’t completely smooth sailing (you’d think something is about to go wrong or at least not as planned) but it all works out in the end overall.
Wow, so while Theresa is perfectly happy with her female form, Typh has got serious gender dysphoria issues, and nobody to relate with. OUCH! And there are no therapists. Yeah.
So is Tiff just forgetting/forgiving/etc. about that whole religious genocide thing that Terry has been mockingly unrepentant about before? Because that still matters, as does Terry’s ongoing western imperialist style sense of superiority to northerners, which is also a problem.
@RandomSpectator Ultimately Teresa isn’t responsible for that.
Though it does kind of works into what Typhan-Knee is saying. Teresa always picks on Typhan-Knee instead of being sympathetic or comforting like the friend she claims to be.
Because that’s the thing, dispite the things she has said to Typhan-Knee, Teresa still claims the two are friends.
I love the look of shock on Terry’s face. It makes it obvious she never realized just how much she hurt Tiff.
@Uhl Well, Teresa can relate, which is why Typhan-Knee is angry Teresa hasn’t been more comforting.
@ Jake
I finally got what you all meant by the reading thing. I’m going to put the blame on having been quite ill for the last few days.
I really like how Scott has cultivated the little seed I had tried to plant. Excellent work!
Does one writer pass on to the next one any information about ideas they had or directions they were heading. Not to tell the next person what to do of course but just as something else to consider that they might not have thought of otherwise as just one example? Basically, is there anything like a writer’s room where past and present writers float the odd idea or two past each other on occasion or is it one person steps out completely and the other takes over with completely their own ideas based on where they are starting from.
It seems like there should be a comic between this and the last one, but no matter.
Teresa is lucky to be alive if Tiff has this personal a grip with her.
@Vorlonagent
1) You might have missed Thursday’s strip, because this continues from that rather well.
2) Not really, this isn’t something Typhan-Knee would kill someone over. This “gripe” isn’t about that.
Hoho… Tiffany has grown more eloquent. ^_^
And she is not wrong.
@Shan… when I stepped down, I gave Scott the outlines and themes I had already composed, but I have not contributed in any way, shape, or form beyond that.
I think we have each taken the material left to us that never made it on page and used it to help guide the overall unseen world building and mythology of Exiern, but not let it constrict us in the story we each want to tell, while respecting everything already put to page.
Panel 3: “She’s poking me in the boob!”
There is one thing we still cant be sure of, and that’s how much of her discomfort is really attributed to her upbringing- and repression of her identity, ‘white magic is attributed to healing and defense after all. That said in either case, she is completely right here
@Mphalperm It seems rather clear Typhan-Knee’s discomfort comes from being in a body that doesn’t match his gender identity.
He even explained in this page that he understands that there’s nothing wrong with being a woman, it’s just not who he is.
Ha! Told all ya’ll that this was Typh’s problem with Teresa! I may of gotten one detail wrong, but otherwise. :3
Thanks for the creator answers.
I think this page is really helpful because it really makes clear the different characters’ positions on their situation. As things currently stand, Typh wants to change back while Teresa most definitely does not.
Given that unlike our world, there’s magic and instant transformations, that also leaves the door open to more possible outcomes.
First off with Typh, if a lot more time passed and there had been no success in restoring Typh’s original body; what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body. Is it possible Typh would consider taking that option if enough time had passed and there was an increasing inability to cope? I guess that is a potential dilemma for anyone in this situation if it went on long enough.
Then, I guess there’s people who find themselves in this situation of instantly being changed unintentionally but ultimately decide to run with it for various possible reasons. As of yet, we don’t know where Pip has ended up on this spectrum. Given it’s spillover from the same magic that led to Typh’s current situation, Pip might be just as stuck. Ultimately, Pip may take a different view on the whole situation
One potential opportunity for Pip though, as it looks like Teresa now has the job of recruiting women (though how Pip identifies now is as yet unknown) into the Church of Rem, so maybe joining like the original case was going to be before you know what happened is once again an option. Since the character is reappearing one day, maybe that’s how it is going to happen.
@ P.S. Scott
On the subject of Pip returning which you’ve confirmed, will Ce’s amazing psychedelic pants also be making an appearance? Mysteriously absent in Ce’s last appearance, I figure since Pip vanquished Ce in combat, Pip should get all of Ce’s stuff, not just the reflection.
@Shan I doubt Typhan-Knee would want to be mind wipe and lose who he is. I don’t think you understand what Typhan-Knee is saying.
Ultimately Typhan-Knee wants to be himself.
The idea also seems rather offensive, because it sounds like those programs in real life that try to make gay people straight.
I also don’t think Teresa would have liked such a suggestion when she was still in her old body. Mind alterations just seem wrong and don’t seem like a good fix at all.
Well, for starters this is a world of magic and mind alterations can and do happen (at no point was I even thinking of those odious conversion therapies we have in real life).
Best example I can think of as I said earlier was Dark Reflections Tiffany who unlike her counterpart here has definitely had her entire mind rewritten including all her past memories (and apparently replaced with a copy of the American Beauty movie among other things). Of course that was totally involuntary.
I think it’s highly unlikely Typh would agree to such a thing as that kind of mental alteration (I was never talking about past memory mind wiping in this case btw) but if enough time passed and the situation became sufficiently intolerable, it could be an interesting dilemma for a character in this situation to at least think about it for a bit instead of instantly rejecting it out of hand. Obviously the character isn’t at that point now but in the future, who knows? In this kind of world, anything is possible.
@Bandit Repression of personal truths due to societal expectations can be a very powerful thing- especially when that truth warrants significant discrimination- can last decades in some cases. Also consider the ‘curse’ is entirely non-offensive magic-yet I consider putting the soul in the wrong body very wishy washy. We know the curse works by changing ones gender then finding the body that best suits them- yet all it can’t agree on a final form for Tiff, outside from that stupid strand of hair
It’s worth noting that for the best part that people in this world are for the best part a lot less discriminatory than our world. Most people don’t seem to care at all about Typh’s past and Teresa’s trouble with the church seems to be more general misogyny and that seems to have subsided somewhat after they were told to cut it out. The mere fact that the king considered both Typh and Teresa for queen (and married the latter) shows that most people, right up to the very top don’t have a problem with it (after all, we haven’t seen any signs of protest about the royal wedding).
** to clarify, this world seems to be a lot less discriminatory *in this area* (from the Northerners right to down south). Plenty of good old fashioned racism and the like floating around though.
That is some fine writing.
@Shan Dragon Age is also a world of magic andin alteration like what you suggested is considered a bad thing, so that’s not a good defense.
A lot of fantasy sci-fi stories treat it like a bad thing.
@Shan That’s not true though, we have seen that there is a lot of xenophobia, misogyny, classism and general bigotry in this setting too.
And what Teresa went through wasn’t just misogyny, which was not subdued, but also transphobia. Remember how her colleagues treated her for wanting to remain in her new body.
@Mhalperm It’s not wishy washy, it’s what it is. Typhan-Knee is a gay man that is currently in a body that doesn’t match his gender identity. That’s what the past couple of strips have made clear and why he’s mad that Teresa has not been more comforting.
He accepted that he’s gay, which he had trouble doing before. So it really doesn’t look like he’s repressing his personal truth now.
@ Bandit
The key point about a potential future scenario I was speculating about was that it would be completely voluntary and not forced.
As time goes on, if there’s hasn’t been a solution to this situation, it may well end up doing quite a number on the mind of the person in it. In Typh’s case, I was just speculating about what might happen if someone came along and said even though they couldn’t change the body, they could realign Typh’s mind to match the present body. Basically, not deleting any memories but giving Typh a female brain to go with it.
The dilemma would be for Typh whether to take the offer and finally cease to be in turmoil or hold out with the home things can be restored to how they were sometime in the future, could they last that long or is it not worth the risk of a possible breakdown if it goes on too long?
I made the point of not using the words “fix”, “correct” or “cure” specifically to make it clear that I wasn’t talking about there being any coercion in any way shape or form.
@ Jake
I added an addendum to my earlier post more or less saying that there was still plenty of discrimination to go around.
PS @Jake
Given that the British Royal family is still wrestling with the logistics of a Catholic marrying into the royal family (never mind being king or queen), the fact that the king was able to marry Teresa and make her queen with no evident signs of opposition gives their society one up on us at least.
When it first came out that Typh was gay, i was not really fan of it.
Mainly because of the issues that Typh is bringing up on this page.
But now, it’s actually a rather nice plot twist and has potential to actually become something interesting.
Wether it was pre planned or not, don’t care, good show either way.
@ Scott
On the subject of alternate worlds, do you think there’s ever a chance the gang might ever visit ours? Maybe it started as just comedy metatextual references when things like Euro Disney, Sharpies, Leeroy Jenkins and the like were mentioned but with statements like “Wookies … whatever that is” maybe it’s a sign that elements of our universe are starting to bleed into Exiern and people are just starting to notice. (I wonder if it includes using a turn of phrase like “It sucks.”? Sounds like something that very much came from us).
You’d know best but I’d guess if it ever were to happen, it’d be better as a side story instead of in the main comic as tonally it might be a bit jarring I suppose. For all we know, it could be so traumatic an experience that everyone agrees to not talk about it in the main comic (their very own Noodle Incident). I can see our world having that effect on people, even ones from worlds filled with with magic and other seemingly impossible happenings.
“So is Tiff just forgetting/forgiving/etc. about that whole religious genocide thing that Terry has been mockingly unrepentant about before? Because that still matters, as does Terry’s ongoing western imperialist style sense of superiority to northerners, which is also a problem.”
Note that imperial self-belief in superior culture is a *general* characteristic of imperial agrarian cultures, not just western, or North/South. At one time Tacitus was describing how Germans were too dumb to make good slaves, until their freedmen descendants accepted the culture of the Hellenistic world, that Rome told itself it was protecting. Meanwhile Chinese were telling each other that that the blue-eyed red-haired demons of the steppes could even be decent, if they just accepted the culture of the Jade Emperor as the Yueh southeastern peoples had after the Chin conquered them and the Han Dynasty “civilized ” them.
Oh boy, Mount Typhan-Knee is erupting! /rubs hands in glee
Can’t wait to see the next comic now….
“I see now the strength of women, that they can do everything men can.”
No, Tiff, you still don’t get it. You still don’t understand what you must to ease the curse’s hold on you.
It’s not that women can do what men specialize in, things that require size, strength, and aggression); typically they can’t. (Although there are exceptions; women who can do those things as well as most men, and better than some.)
It’s that women can do things men cannot, and do other things that most women can do better than most men.
She still has trouble respecting women acting in their proper role; only the male role is acceptable to her, even in a female body.
@Shan: “what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body. Is it possible Typh would consider taking that option if enough time had passed and there was an increasing inability to cope?”
We’ve seen evidence that the curse itself might have the power to do that; she was getting kinda girly at the victory party. But she was not happy with that, and Peonie and Urtica were dismayed at the change in both her demeanor and even her size (she got shorter).
It would be interesting to see how she’d react in the presence of a male she likes and trusts, who might be able to get her to relax her guard a bit.
@Bandit: “Typhan-Knee is a gay man…”
Uh huh, a gay man who was within seconds of raping an adolescent boy. Even if his object of desire was male, he still saw sex as an outlet for violent dominance.
No wonder she can’t accept her female body, or the female role. She knows what a straight man like her would do to her, given the chance.
@Shan… I don’t want to presume to speak for Scott on this matter, but for me:
“what if someone offered Typh the means of realigning Typh’s mind to match the new body, after all the curse is specifically affecting the body…”
Personally, I wouldn’t take a story down that road, but if I did, it’d one grim effin’ fable, on par with the “pray (shock) the gay away” methods used by some extreme religious organizations.
I feel, to some extent, that characters (even if a fantasy setting) need to be able to resonate with people. There’s got to be something that people can experience and be able to think, “Yeah, I know that feeling. I can relate to that struggle.”
A fairly significant part of the reason I went with the “lazy” reveal that Tiffany was gay rather than one of the many more elaborate theories from fans was because of that attempt to resonate. We (as in real people) don’t really have the ability to “reshape” our minds to any great degree, at least not in the way that we can “choose” or sexual orientation or our gender identity.
My iteration of Tiffany was supposed to be for those people who DO feel like they are in the wrong body, and don’t really have a clean way out… something that can’t entirely be solved by just a sex change.
@50srefugee: “Uh huh, a gay man who was within seconds of raping an adolescent boy. Even if his object of desire was male, he still saw sex as an outlet for violent dominance.”
You’re right. Typhan-Knee did. And I didn’t shy away from that brutal upbringing that the young barbarian was subjected to. While there are some things that a person CAN’T change, there are many things that they CAN, one of them being respect or discovering empathy that had been beaten into submission.
Tiffany is struggling with becoming a better person. It’s not easy, it’s not a quick epiphany… but it can happen. I think on THAT score you’ll find Scott is pretty much in lock-step with my intentions.
@ 50srefugee
Well, that was only part of the way, sort of subconscious and reversible once Typh became aware of what was happening. If it was a voluntary and complete process, presumably that would be different (and possibly permanent)
I guess it could be like what’s happened in Dark Reflections (except that was obviously not voluntary) with a complete mind scrub and rewrite. For all intents and purposes, Faden may well have created a whole new person. In fact if Alternate Peonie hadn’t said anything, it’s quite likely Dark Side Tiffany would stay that way and have no reason to think different.
As it is, we don’t know the impact of her hearing about her past, it might just be like hearing the history of a completely different person and not change her in the slightest let alone make her want to be changed back. So far, what Peonie told her hasn’t appeared to jog any real memories in the slightest. She could also remain evil on top of all that. Could be interesting if the end result is that this whole quest to find out what happened just leads to her overthrowing the boss and ultimately taking over the Southern Kingdom (One way to do it is ‘rescue’ Peonie, pretend to get her memory back and now be ‘good’, this time take the king’s offer of marriage and then take over from within. Double points if Peonie helps because she’s been contaminated by Faden crawling about in her head and hence also making her evil. Hey, it’s called Dark Reflections, so things are meant to be … well … dark).
@Chemiclord: “You’re right. Typhan-Knee did. And I didn’t shy away from that brutal upbringing that the young barbarian was subjected to. While there are some things that a person CAN’T change, there are many things that they CAN, one of them being respect or discovering empathy that had been beaten into submission.
Tiffany is struggling with becoming a better person. It’s not easy, it’s not a quick epiphany… but it can happen.”
All true, and I am fully cognizant of that. And we’ve certainly seen Tiffany’s remorse over what she did, and her increasing empathy. But my point was Tiffany’s view of the event, what she remembers sex between a strong man and a physically weaker person being about, and how that might be making her resistant to accept the weaker role.
What’s been growing in my mind over this entire arc, since the brass bikini episode, is a desire to see Tiffany accept weakness, to trust someone enough to show it to him, intimately. To accept that not being physically intimidating is not despicable.
I think that’s a necessary step in her discovery of empathy, that there other kinds of strength than the physical.
===
Also, by the way, thanks for calling the main character here “Tiffany” when you are referring to her female state. I’ve been dabbling with “Typhan-Knee” and its variations out of what I now perceive as a false courtesy.
She’s Tiffany, and a “she”, and to break the curse’s hold on her, she’s going to have to accept that.
As I believe I’ve said previously, if my view is correct, the curse has something of the koan nature.
===
Of course, this is just what I want given the current state of the story. Scott might well do something completely different, but just as satisfying.
Perfect!
@ chemiclord
The big difference I tried to highlight was unlike those odious conversion therapies (which are forced upon from outside the person against their will) is that it would be an option freely offered.
One of the complaints that badwebcomics had was that Typh didn’t seemed to be at all troubled by the body modification and acted like it wasn’t a big deal. I don’t think they read far enough because the impression I got was that it initially wasn’t a big deal. The princess had been rescued and the evil wizard captured, it’s a society full of magic where people and things are often shape changed and it shouldn’t be a big deal to find someone to reverse it.
The problems start for the character when realisation dawns that it isn’t going to be an easy fix and hence the accompanying breakdown further highlighted by exposition girl Mackenzie (that was all your stuff wasn’t it? I thought that was really well written and quite funny).
Now I guess it depends at this point how badly Typh is affected. If muddling along being less than satisfied with life but being able to cope is one thing but if it becomes increasingly intolerable to the point of the character believing it will eventually end in a nervous breakdown or worse; well I was just postulating what would the character do if offered a choice that would save their sanity before it possibly snapped if it seemed there was no chance their body could be restored.
I have no idea what they’d actually choose though, I just figured as a dilemma, well it’s a big one. As a choice it would be voluntary, well as much as anything in this situation could be. Maybe it would be better calling it a gamble, take this less than ideal solution now or hold out on the hope that the preferred resolution turns up while there’s still time.
(If you want to hear of a really bleak situation, there’s at least one place in the world where in real life, people in exactly the same situation as Typh have a choice to either undergo the change Typh did – through less than elegant medical science … or be put to death if they’re found out and caught. )
@ 50s Refugee
I’ve been dodging pronouns as much as possible as I wasn’t sure where the characters stood for a long time. I originally thought it was likely that the original spell tapped into Typh’s subconscious as to what Typh really wanted and hence the effects that even caught Faden by surprise and also why the magic book just filled page after page with HA when Typh asked about how to reverse the effects. Most things after that seem to suggest the exact opposite though. I guess strictly speaking, going on especially this last page, we should refer to Typh with male pronouns and never use the name Tiffany but I’ve very courageously dodged the issue as much as possible and eventually settled on using Typh for a name. As it is, depending on who and what you read, names and pronouns are all over the shop.
Dark Reflections is different, due to what seems to happened there, I call that character Tiffany and use female pronouns because as I said upthread, for all intents and purposes, that seems to be a whole new person built from the ground up. I may or may not have to revise that statement depending on both future developments and how exactly Faden made it happen in this reality.
@Shan that is exactly why I think that there is a possibility much of Typh Prime’s discomfort is from self repression, it could be either really, but everything about it indicates that it acts on Typh’s subconscious- when Typh thinks of women she thinks on how powerless his/her mother was, and at the core Typh is a very dominant personality, he/she didn’t show that they were uncomfortable much until they were out of danger, and has only shown it much when combat isn’t expected- when it made the body weaker and more fragile looking.
In tangentially related news, in response to a question about whether she’d like to appear on Doctor Who, Hayley Atwell tweeted she’d like to play the Doctor. Regardless of how serious she was being, the Internet seems up with the idea. I’m up for it for what that’s worth.
@Shan I thiink Capoldi’s run has a few more seasons before that’s an option
It’d better be. Peter Capaldi is probably the biggest fan of the show out of all the people who’ve played the part, even more so than David Tennant. David was also a huge fan growing up but even he didn’t write to the Doctor Who production offices as a teenager asking for the president of the fan club to be removed and replaced with himself, nor did the secretary who handled all the mail ever suggest that she wouldn’t mind if David was exterminated by the Daleks.
Also, Atwell has Agent Carter and a few more Marvel projects that will presumably take a few more years as well. My personal first choice for a female Doctor is Ruth Wilson (she’s excellent in Luther with Idris Elba), then Tatiana Maslany (who could play both the Doctor, the companion(s) and probably a villain or two) and I hadn’t thought of it before but with Atwell being mentioned, I’ll put her in number 3.
(As for Maslany, even if she was interested, I doubt the controversy would allow it. Having a woman play the Doctor is one thing but a Canadian or other non British nationality is likely to still be a bridge too far).
Sorry, to clarify I mean *It’d better be that Peter Capaldi stays a few more years*. It really can make a big difference when the lead is such a huge fan of the material.
The Doctor’s an interesting character which I thought was at least slightly relevant to what’s going on in this story here in that you have a character that has a continuity of memory but periodically changes his body. The other thing that changes however is the mind insofar as each Doctor remembers what the previous one did but wouldn’t have done the same things in those situations because they’re now different people for all intents and purposes who think differently. Case in point, Matt Smith to Peter Capaldi, no way would Capaldi’s Doctor do some of the things Smith did and vice versa, there’s quite a contrast.
So far, that hasn’t happened here as such with the characters here, Typh and Teresa have changed over time (which all people do to some degree, just maybe not as much of a degree in most cases perhaps) but there hasn’t been a complete break, I guess it would be interesting to see that happen in a character in this world. The closest to this might be the Dark Reflections Tiffany once we she what she’s like after she gets all her memories back and what she does with them, I suppose. Will she remain what effect is a distinct entity from her past or will she start to merge with her former identity and even try to get back to it like her Prime counterpart?
No, The Doctor is a male, just because he can regenerate into a new body doesn’t change the fact that that body is male humanoid
A possibility for why The Master became Missy may have to do with the fact that The Master had run out of regenerations (or The Council had permanently removed that ability) and he become she may have been a way to ‘reboot’ that ability
There is nothing to stop Atwell from being a female Timelord (or Timelady), seeing how The Doctor(s) brought back Galifrey
Doctor Who has been a multi decade night at the improv. It was originally thought it was only going to run for 6 weeks at one point. It wasn’t until William Hartnell had to leave that they came up with the concept of regeneration (the change to Patrick Troughton is the only time you’ll see the clothes regenerate too). The Time Lords weren’t even thought of until near the end of his run.
The thing about Doctor Who and the character of the Doctor is that there’s never been any hard and fast rules, they’re always making things up as they go along. The concept of what would appear to us to be changing the outward appearance of gender first came up when the Corsair was mentioned in the Matt Smith episode “The Doctor’s Wife” as a Time Lord who’d had both outwardly appearing male and female regenerations. There was also the mention of it being a possibility in the Night of the Doctor though that was special circumstances. The Master’s been a renegade for a long time and the present situation could be due to the fact that this character has always done things a lot differently to the rest of Time Lord society.
The key thing is, the Doctor isn’t human, so conventional rules don’t apply. If the makers ever decided to go down that path, there’s really nothing in universe to stop them. Closest approximation in this story might be the Nix (Ce). May look human but most definitely is not and the changes in this case were a practical case of being able to do the job more effectively. There may come a time when the Doctor is in a similar situation and that’s the solution (like when the War Doctor was created).
@Shan Maybe, but just because they got married does not necessarily mean there was no opposition. Plus the King did have to pull some strings to prevent Teresa from being executive for being who she is.
On a side note, i appreciate that Urtica and Peonie are staying out of the conversation here. Not surprising from Urticaria admittedly, but there was a time where Peonie might have butted in an attempt to help.
@50srefuge No, i think Typhan-Knee does understand perfectly.Because women can do anything men can do, sometimes even better. That view shows that he has dropped his misogynistic views and now has a more progressive and open minded world view.
As for sex, i don’t see why he’d have to be in “weaker” role if (which is an odd way to put it if you mean being the submissive/botton).
“Being on top” isn’t exclusive and couples even switch constantly. Plus for all we know, Typhan-Knee might find a guy that prefers Typhan on top.
@50srefuge And technically “Tiffany” isn’t Typhan’s name in any real way since it’s just people misprouncing his actual name, which is also annoying when it happens in real life.
@Shan: Sorry, i know you didn’t mean it that way, but the idea of someone altering Typhan-Knee’s mind like that still seems disturbing.
Jake: you need to do some archive diving, Tiffany is her legitimate name (it’s a Barbarian name)
@ Bandit
Well, the point I’ve always made in my What If scenario is that it’d be Typh’s choice in the first place. It might seem like an unfair choice due to the circumstances but it would be voluntary. As opposed to a few other webcomics I’ve seen which are set in what seems to be innocuously innocent settings like high schools and ordinary offices where much, much worse things are done than anything that has ever been done here in that regards.
@ chemiclord
I forgot to add in my reply to you than even though the dilemma I postulated was a more fantastical one than what you were aiming for (choose to change your brain if you can’t change back your body as you can’t take it any more), even if that in itself isn’t something people in our world can’t do, in a general sense the idea of a difficult choice between two less than ideal options is something people definitely can relate to.
In fact as it currently stands, the only character we know of apart from Typh (which was sort of an unintended and definitely unexpected results of an attack) who may be stuck in a situation they don’t want to be is Pip (and that was an accident more than anything I suppose) but until that character reappears, we’re not going to know their views on the subject.
@ Guesticus.
Well, I guess strictly speaking if we’re applying the social conventions of our world, we should say Typhan-Knee is *his* legitimate name (and a male name in the Northern language) and that Tiffany is a similar sounding female name in the Southern dialect – all as evidenced by the quite different translations for them both as given to us several times in the story.
As shown on this page:
http://www.exiern.com/2015/04/21/simple-description/
And then the following page:
http://www.exiern.com/2015/04/28/not-like-last-time/
PS
My personal position on the issue as I’ve already stated many times is to do my best to avoid the issue for now and worry about it later.
@Guesticus i did and his name Typhan-Knee. Peonie only started calling him “Tiffany ” because it sounds like his actual name, but pronounced differently. Just like his brother’s name Melan-Knee sounds like Melanie.
But as it has been stated several in the Webcomic, the proper way to pronounce his name is Typhan-Knee. “Tiffany” is just people misprouncing his barabarian name. That is the point and why he now insist on people pronouncing it correctly.
Plus he never legally changed his name to “Tiffany” anyway. Oh and if that’s not thing in this setting, then what his name is would be up to him, which he already stated his preference to Typhan-Knee. So either way.
@Guesticus, Since Typh/Tiff is a fictional character and not a real person I think we can give Shan some leeway here
I just remembered, whatever happened to the other Priest besides Teresa that stayed in a female body? The one that was really into burning stuff.
Scott/chemiclord?
@ Jake
The other priest got turned back into himself off panel. Here’s Alexander post sneeze but about to get zapped.
http://www.exiern.com/2011/08/11/bad-touch/
and here reappearing for the first time since sneezing and temporarily slipping back:
http://www.exiern.com/2011/07/06/the-council-of-has-voted/
and here’s the moment when Alexander temporarily slips back:
http://www.exiern.com/2010/09/07/exiern-2010-09-01-web/
(Check the dates for the order of events).
@ Ben
I’m leaving the name debate for others.
@Shan That’s my point though, he sneezed and got turn back, but we never learned what happened after. Did the priest undo the spell again or is the priest stuck like Typhan-Knee is?
Never mind, i read your post wrong. So he got turned back off panel, hadn’t noticed that.
Thank you Shan
Well, that’s my guess following the chain of events. Same name, so I guess it must be the same character. I’ve seen this question come up before in past comment sections I’m sure, I’m surprised no-one picked up on it.
Something else I’ve never seen mentioned is how Captain Phi is no longer a Captain and is now a Lieutenant. I guess if he keeps playing his cards right though he might get to one day marry Princess Peonie to make up for it. Mind you, as much as I like Phi, I’m still hoping she marries Typh, even if they can’t return Typh back to original state. Doesn’t seem likely though.
Maybe that’s something that’ll happen in Dark Reflections though after they evilly take over the kingdom – to do more evil. I know I keep saying it but Dark Reflections kind of has to be a dark reflection of the original strip as after all, it’s in the name and everything.
That and his hair color changed from brown to blue.
I’ve got another one for you. I couldn’t really tell what colour the eyes were when the priests first appeared as drawn by the previous artist as I don’t think they were ever close enough but when the current one started drawing, initially Teresa’s eyes were brown or hazel and then at some point switched to blue and stayed that way.
I know there’s things that started as continuity mishaps (accidental omissions by the artist like that necklace) that have gone on to be plot points (shifts in the aether altering the past) so I wonder if this started as a colouring error or was always intended to be deliberate and either way, whatever it is now, what does it mean?
This was the first page I could find where I could get a clear view of Teresa’s eyes here:
http://www.exiern.com/2010/07/06/exiern-2010-06-06-j-1-web/
Whatever colour they were in earlier strips, I couldn’t tell for sure. What’s also interesting about this strip is that Typh says almost the exact same things there (right down to the poking!) as here but it obviously didn’t seem to get through *at all*.
Then again, I’ve always wondered about this:
http://www.exiern.com/2007/06/01/dragon-attack/
and yet this happens much later on.
http://www.exiern.com/2010/06/24/exiern-2010-06-06-web/
http://www.exiern.com/2010/06/29/exiern-2010-06-04a-web/
Does Denver have memory problems from too many blows to the head?
I’m guessing either continuity snafu or deliberate alteration to create a new plot point about Typh’s ability to read. Anyway the idea of a continually shifting past due to the Aether is an excellent way to eliminate all discontinuities from the smallest to the biggest ones. You can say it was all planned that way. It can also retroactively lead to some exciting new plot ideas (I believe the necklace and its appearing and disappearing turned into one.)
@Shan Makes sense, as the previous page established Teresa assumed Typhan-Knee’s distaste was because of the accusation Typhan made, that’s probably why it’s the only thing Teresa seems to remember about that argument.
I’ve always wondered if Typh’s frequent stream of insults towards Teresa was a general one that people who didn’t like the church made towards priests in general or whether Typh had heard specific thanks to the slander campaign by the leadership, ironically using accusations against the people actually trying to clean up the church from that very behaviour.
I’m guessing the former is much more likely though as I couldn’t see it being very likely that Typh had heard of anyone except maybe the very top leadership and was just being generally insulting with no specific knowledge in mind.
PS
There was this page about Typh wanting to one day start a family. I wonder if they’re ever going to come back to that?
http://www.exiern.com/2011/02/28/what-tiffany-wants/
@Shan It’s more likely that a lot of people already suspect what Coriander and his priest do, they just don’t have any proof. After all, that is why Urtica and Teresa started this scheme, to find evidence.
Question about this page, do you think the henchman we only see from behind holding Peonie over his shoulder is Vandel, who we see in Dark Reflections? We don’t see him doing anything in this strip which makes me wonder if Typh eliminated him before we even saw the start of the first confrontation between Typh and Faden in this strip, something that for whatever reason didn’t happen in Dark Reflections.
http://www.exiern.com/2011/11/17/reflection/
On the other hand, maybe the alternate universes started to divergence a bit earlier than it seems. In both stories, Faden starts to say he’s going to summon a demon but in Dark Reflections, he changes his mind and decides to do the job himself.
However, in Dark Reflections, after the fight between Faden and Typhan-Knee seemingly ends with Faden’s dismemberment, Vandel bursts in saying that “the barbarian has escaped”. So maybe in trying to break into Asylum, Typh was captured, imprisoned and escaped while in this Prime universe, Typh just broke in, killed Vandel on the way and then fought Faden. Any thoughts?
Then there’s the nature of the sword in Dark Reflections, do you think that Typh’s sword is a different magic sword with different powers than the one in this universe? Certainly seems like it might be, it has a different name and properties and everything. Makes you wonder up to when both universes had a past in common and with random changes in the past of this universe (Typh’s disappearing sisters), you’d imagine different changes in the past of the Dark Reflections universe so in effect, both universes could end up breaking completely free from each other. Then there’s our universe, seems like a lot of contamination is leaking into both. It’s just cultural terminology that seems wildly out of place for now but who knows where it will stop …
Don’t even tell me…
Is this going to go even deeper into the identity politics horseshit than Chemiclord’s arc?
If a body still has both hands, feet, all fingers and toes, eyes, ears, nose, mouth… all functional… then what does it matter what is between the legs? It is no more than a flipped coin. One way you get the inny set, the other way you get the outty set. There is no “wrong answer”.
And here I was under the impression that the whole problem throughout the entirety of this webcomic was simply having things changed that one had got used to. A new body is like having to move home suddenly… and the new home doesn’t have any of the familiar parts that endeared the old one… but it is still a home, and one can get used to it…. until it would be weirder to switch back.
Heck, Denver had a far worse time of it.
@SotiCoto If people being seriously unsatisfied with their bodies wasn’t such an issue plastic surgery would not exist