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Actually, this “problem” seems like it would be acerbated by putting Typhan Knee in female form. It does not seem like a sex change would make him fit conventional gender patterns better.
On the other hand, he got a healthy does of body chemistry to help: remember the strip where Tiff realized with disdain that beer did no longer taste fathomably to her?
Oh, we’re going down this road… ehh, honestly I don’t think it’s inconceivable that a sudden and dramatic change in physical form could influence neurochemistry on a purely biological level, mind influencing the body and all that, we are dealing with magic after all, but this is conjecture and hypotheticals either way.
I don’t have a problem with Typhan-Knee being originally a repressed homosexual, but that doesn’t really seem to gel with what I’ve observed of his/her character, even with the significant variations in tone this story has taken as it has evolved from its original form.
In the end… I guess it all comes down to execution, whether this revelation is meaningful and serves the story and the characters in the long run, I guess we’ll have to see…
I didn’t think Typhan-Knee was a repressed homosexual, I had thought he was someone in denial of a female gender identity. This would explain why Fadan’s spell acted the way it did: It was an overload of “white” (essentially healing) magic, so it brought Tiffany’s body in line with what she, subconsciously, thought it should be.
Yep, farm boy.
I suspect a rape won’t occur (unicorn) but I’m thinking it’ll come close. Possibly he’ll rage further at the realisation and kill the kid instead or maybe the tribe members that confronted Raviner will wreck the moment
I can totally understand how these pages may have been disturbing. This is a hell of a side to Tiff. Very dramatic change in story style up ’till now. Even the death of the spell singer had a degree of gag in it with Tiff smashing Neils and roaring at the singer before killing her. This feels completely full on and serious.
@Kyote: that looks like a “female mind” to you? Please never introduce me to your wife.
Gay and transsexual are orthogonal things. Gay is about who you desire to be with, transsexuality about who you desire to be.
Many transsexuals are gay after their operation: if you could not stand your own sexuality and reproductive organs half of your life, it’s not a given that you will be enthusiastic about those of someone else.
If, as seems likely, Typhon is going to attempt to rape the boy, it may turn out that he is confused about more than who he is attracted to, and yet feels guilty about more than the murders.
Perhaps, in his heart of hearts, what he longed for was to catch, not pitch.
By the terms of his society, that translates into wanting to be submissive, not dominant, and given the abusiveness that implies to the Northern barbarians, no wonder he repressed it.
Now, though, Tiffany may well have a better model of the female role, one in which she can be moderately, physically submissive to a loving man, without being brutally enslaved.
No, doesn’t look like a ‘rape-face’ to me, more a ‘psychotic murder-you-all-and-bathe-in-your-blood’ face, or, a typical ‘barbarian’ berserker face
Francisco: unicorns, in all worlds they exist in, only care about the state of your virginity, not how many bodies you have or have not hacked up in a fit of rage
Xenau: lose of virginity is when you have your first sexual encounter that involves penetration, if Typh had had penetrated that farm boy then he would not have been a virgin any longer, if it came down to whether Tiff’s new body was ‘intact’, then it wouldn’t matter if Typh was or was it a virgin
I hate to say it but I like Typh less after this page. Not the revelation or anything like that, but I think the same effect could have been achieved without Typh being a cold blooded murderer…brutal barbarian culture or not.
Bob-AW, I too like Typh less, a lot less, after these revelations. In fact, I have pretty much zero sympathy for the character now.
But that’s exactly why my interest in the story has skyrocketed.
Nothing less would have had so strong an effect. Acts like these are part of Typh’s history, and an all too plausible facet of raider society. I seriously doubt any male of his tribe grows to adulthood without committing such acts. I have, frankly, been rather dismissive of the story up to now exactly because I thought the writers weren’t taking this seriously enough.
Tiffany’s going to have make a very substantial act of contrition to redeem herself, which is a profound story hook.
I applaud the creators for being brave enough to pursue the implications of Tiffany’s society and her upbringing, and I hope the audience sticks around to see how it’s resolved.
Hmm, speaking of acts of contrition, I remind myself that Tiffany has betrothed herself to a royal marriage, presumably to King Itchy, since Princess Peonie is now clearly out of the question.
And I doubt the King will accept an equal Queen Regnant, rather than a submissive Queen Consort.
Although…hmm again, perhaps Tiff will help subdue her own tribe, and be made ruler over them, joined to the Alliance in marriage.
In any event, I’m looking forward to Peonie gaining a new half-sister. 😉
Fred Gallagher once gave me some advice along the lines of, “You can’t be afraid of letting people hate your characters, even the protagonists.”
Typhan-Knee wasn’t a good guy. He was his father’s favorite son, who tried to mold his son in his image. The hope is that once readers see who Typhan-Knee WAS that they’ll really see how far Tiffany has come to be the person she is NOW.
Guesticus, I assume that you’ve never watched Legend (1985) or read the webcomic Spare Keys to Strange Doors? I think the unicorns in Harry Potter are a bit more discerning as well (but I’ll have to re-read it to make sure).
How is this origin story that much different from other hero/protagonist origin stories?
There was a huge trauma that affected that person in a profound way and had an intense impact on them; then they rose above it and forged ahead in their new path. Typhan-Knee was not a good person entirely. Tiffany is coming to terms with that and is trying to change. That is admirable, not despicable.
@windsinger. We’re right in the middle of the distasteful reveal. This is the most intense moment for readers and lovers of the story characters. Exiern will pull through this but as rough as it is to show its just as rough to put the readership through.
Persevere and the readers WILL see how Tiff has changed from her upbringing and past.
The first step on the road to redemption is to accept you’ve done stuff that makes you need to redeem yourself, for those saying Tiff is unredeemable. When she was raised in the wild north as a young man she was taught that southerners were just animals to be hunted, that women were even less than that, the she was a prince who had the right to take what she wanted when she wanted, that rage and fighting were “cool” and anyone fighting back was well out of line. You raise a child with that attitude, what do you expect they would be like?
Now Tiff has traveled. Seen the error of her ways, and been forced to see those errors in the most painful way. Redemption is not a destination, but a journey. As long as she keeps trying, she can be forgiven. No one is unredeemable if they try. Its just trying to be better can often drag up a lot of uncomfortable emotions and some surprising thoughts.
As for the unicorn. It seems to be a of Pratchettean model Unicorn. it is a bloody great horse with a sharp horn on its head that just happens to have its weakness as virgins. I’m not sure there is much morality in it beyond that, but ICBW.
I think Typh had some serious nuro chemistry problems, when in “battle mode” he appears to have bean a non-functional psychopath, perhaps part of why he left is because he didn’t like who he was in “Battle Mode”, as a Barbarian Warrior he had to give over to the beserker and as such he’s all in to the wallowing in blood and using your head as a hat through three provinces, Burn & Pillage over Rape & Pillage seams to have bean his thing. as a wondering adventurer he could be just a Fighter and therefore control his dark self.
Tiff looks like she doesn’t have the bad brain chemistry that Typh had or if she dose has a much easier time controlling it.
Haven’t seen anything from Typh that would require any ‘acts of contrition to redeem herself’, stop looking at/judging it from the comfort of your modern ‘enlightened’ world-view and remember the world/age/society Typh came from
Francisco: no, never seen Legend (that’s that fantasy movie that shat all over a few different myths/legends with Tom ‘Scientologist’ Cruise isn’t it?)
Young Typhan-Knee was well on his way to becoming a monster, and definitely not a likeable character. It remains to be seen if he redeemed himself before or after being changed into a woman, what I remember of him before Faden’s spell could well have been a bad guy too. Sad to say, except for the prejudice against gays implied, this is realistic for barbarian type cultures.
It was not bad brain chemistry it was a Bad father. Female equals Evil to Typh it was beat into him. The farm boy was safe from being ravaged I think Typh wanted to be the BOTTOM. That he had a very Roman upbringing in the Roman empire a Roman was straight and Powerful as Long as he WAS THE GUY THE TOP THE MALE! But to Romans the the Girl position was Shameful. Julius Caesar Surprised the Empire by admitting he Liked being the Wife.And was truely BiSexal.
Typh was raised by a Brutal Rapist who was all about Proving he was a TRUE MALE! (betting he was gay to)
Typhany was Shamed to his bones that he Like being a Girl.
And he got Angry. He was not just GAY he was Feminine.
No serious nuro chemistry problem Required just a Rotten Dad.
How far would the reality Rewrite go? What would the world be like If Tiff was always a Girl? The King seemed to think his daughter would still be saved, but what about mom and typh victims? That one Heck of a incentive.
@Bob-AW and anyone else that has issues with Typhan killing the girls in cold blood…
Yeah… I’m surprised. I didn’t expect that. But I have a feeling that the guilt behind those actions are plaguing Typhan more than anything else, at this point. I’m not sure how she atones for that… but when you consider what he was sent in to do to those girls, I’m not so sure there was a happy ending possible…
Someone said something about taming the northern barbarians… maybe ending this practice. Maybe that’s what Tiff has to do. She can’t change what she’s done but she can change the future.
Based on my own experiences, I’m hoping that Tiff doesn’t need to be categorized in any particular way. I’m a straight guy but I have friends who’ve dealt with similar things in their lives (not the magically trans-gendered part but the sexual / gender issues that we’re exploring in Exiern’s latest pages) and each may find some things in common with one another but they were all unique in their feelings, experiences and interpretations of those things that there’s really no need to say “Tiff was gay but liked being a guy.” or “Tiff always felt like a woman in a man’s body.” etc. In reality, it’s more complicated than that and trying to fit Tiff into some classification isn’t only unfair to her but to the many different people who might be reading the comic.
what if Tiff was a girl to begin with,and was morphed into a boy form before the story even started?and the *white* magic simply dispeled that spell?turning her into her true form?make sence to me
What do you mean by “shat all over”? Almost all stories in the fantasy genre play with myths and legends, how was Legend any different to anything else? Even this webcomic plays with fantasy tropes.
Unless they do something reprehensible, I tend to ignore the private lives of stars.
Hmm. I’m with Guesticus to an extent. I don’t think Tiff feels a great deal of remorse over her past pillaging and killing. She’s certainly never indicated anything to Neil’s about regret after learning he came from Neese and she would know her tribe raided it and took her mother. Tiff grew up with her own hardships and in true rough style of her tribe’s ways but had the addition of loosing both her parents and then being outcast.
I think Tiff is more troubled over her family issues and certainly her sexuality, likely having been in self denial for many years… Effectively she’s truly coming out of the closet now.
That’s not to say that once we’re past this that more enlightenment isn’t visited upon Tiff as time progresses. She may even visit the villages she raided or meet people from there and learn of the pain and hardship her actions wrought.
There also the none human factor till typh was a Girl he honestly believed his father ,Women were not human.Not Real just animals Strangely I think his brother was more balanced and SANE that Typh or his Dad.
People having a problem with Typh killing the girls in cold blood: you do realise, in many cases, women and children were fair game when it came to killing everyone in the village, don’t you? Sometimes they were killed before the raping, sometimes after, and even sometimes during
Why are people saying Typh killed the girls in cold blood? You know what cold blood means, right? She just said he killed them in rage; by definition, that means not cold-blooded. Maybe “in cold blood” applies to what he’s about to do to that farm boy, but I’m wondering if people are just adding “cold blood” to make past Typh seem more evil than he has been portrayed.
@chemiclord: Fred Gallagher once gave me some advice along the lines of, “You can’t be afraid of letting people hate your characters, even the protagonists.”
How about the storytelling? This appears headed into a very one-dimensional somewhat politically correct strained and boorish plot twist that makes short thrift of the nuances of the somewhat tongue-in-cheek character psychology that has not, up to now, reverted to replace storytelling with applying labels of the “x is y, so he does z” kind.
@David I’m not exactly sure I’m reading you right, so bear with me if I’ve gleaned the wrong impression.
I think at this point in the webcomic world, there’s enough of a representation of gay or lesbian characters that to reveal a character is homosexual would be a fairly poor “twist.” Which, fortunately for me, Tiffany’s reveal is most certainly not.
There’s no real intended politically correct statement here. It’s part of the greater storyline, but merely a part. That Tiffany was/is gay isn’t the story.
It’s context. It’s Tiffany giving background to HER recollection of the events that led to her exile, something that I hope will bring the three prior accounts together into a complete sequence of events… as well as the real “twist” to come.
Calaron: agreed, ‘cold blooded’ would be if Typh was just walking around the back streets of the main city of the Illuminary Alliance (has the name actually been revealed yet?) and coming across an equally lost traveller looking for help and just simply leaving them in an un-recognisable-as-a-human pile of meat and bones and continuing on as though nothing happened
(what? don’t look at me like that, it happened with me, but not in Exiern, don’t even remember doing it, but won’t deny it either. by the way, the lost resident is now much better, and hunting her former fellow citizens for sport)
It’ll certainly be interesting to see where the story goes from here. I’m guessing Tiff needs to return to her tribe and deal with a few things there. Maybe Neils will even catch up with his niece some more. Or they could find they’ve been transported elsewhere for something more important, fly by dragon or even be ambushed by some other mob.
There’s several dozen story elements that appear to be floating around.
Faden visited several years ago for an unknown reason.
Ctyx has Faden’s hand, the “eye”, the magic book and Mira’s body which will likely end up in the lost city for resurrection.
Peonie’s Mother disappeared with one hell of a giant ruby.
The fractured are up to gods only knows what.
Neil’s reveal on what he paid to become an uber knight.
Dragon quest on why they’re dying.
Denver turning into a dragon and maybe reunite with his sister
Maybe a few things with Amalia and the theater.
I recall a Rus being imprisoned and they’re probably peeved at the death of their girl despite her intentions.
There is trainee spellsinger Pip with Ce stuck in his head now
Beyond that, I guess there is whatever the other spellsinger Tiff killed was up to with trying to kidnap Peonie.
Thats just off the top of my head. Probably another half-dozen strings around that could thread into the story again at any moment or inter-twine to form unforseen weaves.
For some reason I get the feeling that Tiffany was born female and her father had some powerful magic cast to change her from female to male so that he could prove he had an heir. What Faden did was not so much as cast a curse on Tiffany but remove the magic keeping her male.
I’ve worked out why I used the term “cold blooded” and, on reviewing things, I think it might apply.
1. The decision to rape or to attempt a rape was made before the raids so was likely to be made in cold blood.
2. Killing someone for not arousing them is close to saying, “Look what you made me do.” A few years ago there was a psychological study into men who batter their wives. Just search: cobra pit bull personality type and pay special attention to the cobras.
Rape is a nasty thing. I am 45, my Dad told me when I was 15 that he came across 3 guys raping a underage girl in a the back room of a bar(this would been in the 1950s and my father been dead 30 years so I doubt there a Legal issue here ) everyone just Pretended it was not happening, He beat the the three of them and then he crippled them. He was a really big guy. He said they wear laughing and she could not been older than 12 Mexican crying. He said it just happened he stopped at a bar with my mom and my brother a then baby for a hamburger and he had to stop it, but then he saw the girl. He had no control he saw the child and he went cold like he was watching a movie. He beat them till the could not fight back, not to hurt them. Then used a bar stool Leg to break there Spines Use his hand to feel to make certain there spines wear severed so they never hurt a Woman or child again. He said he just planned to beat them but he looked at the child and thinking shut down. He just suddenly did not want to hurt them just cripple them.
The men had thought it all a Joke.
My dad said it was worsted thing he ever done bc it was so cold no emotion no control scared the hell out of him.
But I think Tiffs dad was Like those Guys.
The Ash tribe clearly thought in his dads time rape was fun. Not a Lack of control but a way to terrifie and Humiliate their Prey Southerners to dehumanize them.
So I think it was a tactical decision but a deliberately Evil one, What is Cold Blooded Exactly?
My Dad playing Vigilante quite literally out of his mind with cold Rage or three guy who reduced a child to meat while laughing ?
@Chemiclord, you shouldn’t feel the need to justify anything. The folks who don’t like where this is going probably have no idea where it is actually going. If you think the story you are telling is a good one, let it stand on its own.
I’m not attempting to justify anything really. At the end of the day, it’s my story… not anyone else’s. But I do like to try and keep engaged and let people into my thought process on occasion. It’s good to have discourse, it’s helpful to receive feedback.
Constructive feedback anyway. As before, I think one of the most significant things this is driving home is just how different your storytelling is to Drowemos’ with a much more serious tone and spacing of gags compared to the page by page gags. You’re just hitting the turbulence with some of the longer running story subjects Drow handed you getting wrapped up, expanded upon or covered in your own story telling style.
Hey! Who knew you could have multiple pages of comments?
Jonathan Wint: your dad didn’t want to hurt them just cripple them? Umm, unless he was Professor of Anatomy (or just happened to carry around enough tranquiliser to numb 3 men), he was damn lucky he didn’t kill them in his attempt ‘not to hurt them’
Jonathan Wint: I have had similar experiences to your father with regards to the “going cold”, however, after the first time I would seek them out. There is a moment of fear, of the unknown, then you know that a physical confrontation is inevitable, suddenly, my body relaxes, my mind empties – it is the most peaceful moment and acceptance of what is to come. You roll the dice and gamble with your life and health – what drove me forward, the ultimate risk, not the harm to others.
Then you watch yourself do things, very scary on hind sight because you could kill someone and have no control.
There is no time for thought, only action and reaction.
People say that a berserker becomes filled with rage. Maybe that is something people assume from the level of violence. I wonder if I am what people talked about. I just become cold, like a crisp morning in a mountain valley with mint in the air, that sort of cold in my mind and otherwise empty. No rage.
(I no longer go out doing that, will be a decade soon, I replaced online gaming addiction with that. Sometimes in the beginning when I was trying to tell myself I was only wanting to go out for a drink, I would white knuckle it to hold out.)
That is the dark side.
On the positive side that suspension of consciousness has saved me a few times, I relax and give up home when in a seemingly pointless vehicle accident and suddenly the subconscious kicks in and does something amazing, going down a gap with half an inch on each side to spare, something I wouldn’t have been able to do when thinking about it, for example.
@Dr. Z, Are you wrong? No, can’t be wrong to have “how you’d like things to be”.
But it is perhaps naive to believe that a barbarian is not also a pillager or plunderer. And plunder and pillaging historically involve killing, looting, and rape.
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My first thought upon reading this page:
“That poor farm boy.”
seconded
Actually, this “problem” seems like it would be acerbated by putting Typhan Knee in female form. It does not seem like a sex change would make him fit conventional gender patterns better.
On the other hand, he got a healthy does of body chemistry to help: remember the strip where Tiff realized with disdain that beer did no longer taste fathomably to her?
As to the above remarks: let’s not forget the unicorn which will support the testimony “I did not have sex with that farm boy”.
@David Well it depends whether the unicorn is hard on technicalities or more into context
Oh, we’re going down this road… ehh, honestly I don’t think it’s inconceivable that a sudden and dramatic change in physical form could influence neurochemistry on a purely biological level, mind influencing the body and all that, we are dealing with magic after all, but this is conjecture and hypotheticals either way.
I don’t have a problem with Typhan-Knee being originally a repressed homosexual, but that doesn’t really seem to gel with what I’ve observed of his/her character, even with the significant variations in tone this story has taken as it has evolved from its original form.
In the end… I guess it all comes down to execution, whether this revelation is meaningful and serves the story and the characters in the long run, I guess we’ll have to see…
Typh is a transsexual? Always had a female mind that was enclosed into a male barbarian body?
I didn’t think Typhan-Knee was a repressed homosexual, I had thought he was someone in denial of a female gender identity. This would explain why Fadan’s spell acted the way it did: It was an overload of “white” (essentially healing) magic, so it brought Tiffany’s body in line with what she, subconsciously, thought it should be.
Yep, farm boy.
I suspect a rape won’t occur (unicorn) but I’m thinking it’ll come close. Possibly he’ll rage further at the realisation and kill the kid instead or maybe the tribe members that confronted Raviner will wreck the moment
I can totally understand how these pages may have been disturbing. This is a hell of a side to Tiff. Very dramatic change in story style up ’till now. Even the death of the spell singer had a degree of gag in it with Tiff smashing Neils and roaring at the singer before killing her. This feels completely full on and serious.
Typhan-Knee has plenty to atone for…
@Gallstone: Indeed she does. Typhan-Knee had been well on his way to emulating his father… who had more than his share of brutish faults himself.
okay… I can honestly say I hate the direction this is going.
I liked it completely up to this, but I hate this.
I’m disappointed in unicorns in this universe. After all he’s killed people in cold blood and he’s still “pure” enough to ride a unicorn.
@Kyote: that looks like a “female mind” to you? Please never introduce me to your wife.
Gay and transsexual are orthogonal things. Gay is about who you desire to be with, transsexuality about who you desire to be.
Many transsexuals are gay after their operation: if you could not stand your own sexuality and reproductive organs half of your life, it’s not a given that you will be enthusiastic about those of someone else.
Hm…
If, as seems likely, Typhon is going to attempt to rape the boy, it may turn out that he is confused about more than who he is attracted to, and yet feels guilty about more than the murders.
Perhaps, in his heart of hearts, what he longed for was to catch, not pitch.
By the terms of his society, that translates into wanting to be submissive, not dominant, and given the abusiveness that implies to the Northern barbarians, no wonder he repressed it.
Now, though, Tiffany may well have a better model of the female role, one in which she can be moderately, physically submissive to a loving man, without being brutally enslaved.
No, doesn’t look like a ‘rape-face’ to me, more a ‘psychotic murder-you-all-and-bathe-in-your-blood’ face, or, a typical ‘barbarian’ berserker face
Francisco: unicorns, in all worlds they exist in, only care about the state of your virginity, not how many bodies you have or have not hacked up in a fit of rage
Xenau: lose of virginity is when you have your first sexual encounter that involves penetration, if Typh had had penetrated that farm boy then he would not have been a virgin any longer, if it came down to whether Tiff’s new body was ‘intact’, then it wouldn’t matter if Typh was or was it a virgin
I hate to say it but I like Typh less after this page. Not the revelation or anything like that, but I think the same effect could have been achieved without Typh being a cold blooded murderer…brutal barbarian culture or not.
Sooo, as a guy, Tiffany was inpotent?
And yeah, that last panel is freaky.
Bob-AW, I too like Typh less, a lot less, after these revelations. In fact, I have pretty much zero sympathy for the character now.
But that’s exactly why my interest in the story has skyrocketed.
Nothing less would have had so strong an effect. Acts like these are part of Typh’s history, and an all too plausible facet of raider society. I seriously doubt any male of his tribe grows to adulthood without committing such acts. I have, frankly, been rather dismissive of the story up to now exactly because I thought the writers weren’t taking this seriously enough.
Tiffany’s going to have make a very substantial act of contrition to redeem herself, which is a profound story hook.
I applaud the creators for being brave enough to pursue the implications of Tiffany’s society and her upbringing, and I hope the audience sticks around to see how it’s resolved.
Hmm, speaking of acts of contrition, I remind myself that Tiffany has betrothed herself to a royal marriage, presumably to King Itchy, since Princess Peonie is now clearly out of the question.
And I doubt the King will accept an equal Queen Regnant, rather than a submissive Queen Consort.
Although…hmm again, perhaps Tiff will help subdue her own tribe, and be made ruler over them, joined to the Alliance in marriage.
In any event, I’m looking forward to Peonie gaining a new half-sister. 😉
Why does the woman have three breasts?
Six breasts, I mean.
SGM, good question.
I’m assuming that she’s a werewolf/human halfbreed. 😉
Fifties…I agree and I still want to see where all this goes. Just saying Tiff took a hit on the likability scale in my book. Still an awesome comic. 🙂
Fred Gallagher once gave me some advice along the lines of, “You can’t be afraid of letting people hate your characters, even the protagonists.”
Typhan-Knee wasn’t a good guy. He was his father’s favorite son, who tried to mold his son in his image. The hope is that once readers see who Typhan-Knee WAS that they’ll really see how far Tiffany has come to be the person she is NOW.
Guesticus, I assume that you’ve never watched Legend (1985) or read the webcomic Spare Keys to Strange Doors? I think the unicorns in Harry Potter are a bit more discerning as well (but I’ll have to re-read it to make sure).
Bob & chemclord,
Tiffany is close to crossing the Moral Event Horizon in my book.
How is this origin story that much different from other hero/protagonist origin stories?
There was a huge trauma that affected that person in a profound way and had an intense impact on them; then they rose above it and forged ahead in their new path. Typhan-Knee was not a good person entirely. Tiffany is coming to terms with that and is trying to change. That is admirable, not despicable.
@windsinger. We’re right in the middle of the distasteful reveal. This is the most intense moment for readers and lovers of the story characters. Exiern will pull through this but as rough as it is to show its just as rough to put the readership through.
Persevere and the readers WILL see how Tiff has changed from her upbringing and past.
The first step on the road to redemption is to accept you’ve done stuff that makes you need to redeem yourself, for those saying Tiff is unredeemable. When she was raised in the wild north as a young man she was taught that southerners were just animals to be hunted, that women were even less than that, the she was a prince who had the right to take what she wanted when she wanted, that rage and fighting were “cool” and anyone fighting back was well out of line. You raise a child with that attitude, what do you expect they would be like?
Now Tiff has traveled. Seen the error of her ways, and been forced to see those errors in the most painful way. Redemption is not a destination, but a journey. As long as she keeps trying, she can be forgiven. No one is unredeemable if they try. Its just trying to be better can often drag up a lot of uncomfortable emotions and some surprising thoughts.
As for the unicorn. It seems to be a of Pratchettean model Unicorn. it is a bloody great horse with a sharp horn on its head that just happens to have its weakness as virgins. I’m not sure there is much morality in it beyond that, but ICBW.
I think Typh had some serious nuro chemistry problems, when in “battle mode” he appears to have bean a non-functional psychopath, perhaps part of why he left is because he didn’t like who he was in “Battle Mode”, as a Barbarian Warrior he had to give over to the beserker and as such he’s all in to the wallowing in blood and using your head as a hat through three provinces, Burn & Pillage over Rape & Pillage seams to have bean his thing. as a wondering adventurer he could be just a Fighter and therefore control his dark self.
Tiff looks like she doesn’t have the bad brain chemistry that Typh had or if she dose has a much easier time controlling it.
Haven’t seen anything from Typh that would require any ‘acts of contrition to redeem herself’, stop looking at/judging it from the comfort of your modern ‘enlightened’ world-view and remember the world/age/society Typh came from
Francisco: no, never seen Legend (that’s that fantasy movie that shat all over a few different myths/legends with Tom ‘Scientologist’ Cruise isn’t it?)
Young Typhan-Knee was well on his way to becoming a monster, and definitely not a likeable character. It remains to be seen if he redeemed himself before or after being changed into a woman, what I remember of him before Faden’s spell could well have been a bad guy too. Sad to say, except for the prejudice against gays implied, this is realistic for barbarian type cultures.
It was not bad brain chemistry it was a Bad father. Female equals Evil to Typh it was beat into him. The farm boy was safe from being ravaged I think Typh wanted to be the BOTTOM. That he had a very Roman upbringing in the Roman empire a Roman was straight and Powerful as Long as he WAS THE GUY THE TOP THE MALE! But to Romans the the Girl position was Shameful. Julius Caesar Surprised the Empire by admitting he Liked being the Wife.And was truely BiSexal.
Typh was raised by a Brutal Rapist who was all about Proving he was a TRUE MALE! (betting he was gay to)
Typhany was Shamed to his bones that he Like being a Girl.
And he got Angry. He was not just GAY he was Feminine.
No serious nuro chemistry problem Required just a Rotten Dad.
But here the most Interesting thing Typh Might be Able to Rewrite history. Bring her Mother back to Life Revive his Victims undo it all. How?
http://www.exiern.com/2010/12/14/curse-explained/
How far would the reality Rewrite go? What would the world be like If Tiff was always a Girl? The King seemed to think his daughter would still be saved, but what about mom and typh victims? That one Heck of a incentive.
Hey wait, I thought Tiffany’s origin was still a secret to Denver!
When did she reveal it?
Denver had been informed at a point just before The Wild North starts, he admits to Teresa breaking that secret.
http://www.exiern.com/2012/06/19/what-lies-beneath/
@Bob-AW and anyone else that has issues with Typhan killing the girls in cold blood…
Yeah… I’m surprised. I didn’t expect that. But I have a feeling that the guilt behind those actions are plaguing Typhan more than anything else, at this point. I’m not sure how she atones for that… but when you consider what he was sent in to do to those girls, I’m not so sure there was a happy ending possible…
Someone said something about taming the northern barbarians… maybe ending this practice. Maybe that’s what Tiff has to do. She can’t change what she’s done but she can change the future.
Based on my own experiences, I’m hoping that Tiff doesn’t need to be categorized in any particular way. I’m a straight guy but I have friends who’ve dealt with similar things in their lives (not the magically trans-gendered part but the sexual / gender issues that we’re exploring in Exiern’s latest pages) and each may find some things in common with one another but they were all unique in their feelings, experiences and interpretations of those things that there’s really no need to say “Tiff was gay but liked being a guy.” or “Tiff always felt like a woman in a man’s body.” etc. In reality, it’s more complicated than that and trying to fit Tiff into some classification isn’t only unfair to her but to the many different people who might be reading the comic.
what if Tiff was a girl to begin with,and was morphed into a boy form before the story even started?and the *white* magic simply dispeled that spell?turning her into her true form?make sence to me
Guesticus,
What do you mean by “shat all over”? Almost all stories in the fantasy genre play with myths and legends, how was Legend any different to anything else? Even this webcomic plays with fantasy tropes.
Unless they do something reprehensible, I tend to ignore the private lives of stars.
Hmm. I’m with Guesticus to an extent. I don’t think Tiff feels a great deal of remorse over her past pillaging and killing. She’s certainly never indicated anything to Neil’s about regret after learning he came from Neese and she would know her tribe raided it and took her mother. Tiff grew up with her own hardships and in true rough style of her tribe’s ways but had the addition of loosing both her parents and then being outcast.
I think Tiff is more troubled over her family issues and certainly her sexuality, likely having been in self denial for many years… Effectively she’s truly coming out of the closet now.
That’s not to say that once we’re past this that more enlightenment isn’t visited upon Tiff as time progresses. She may even visit the villages she raided or meet people from there and learn of the pain and hardship her actions wrought.
There also the none human factor till typh was a Girl he honestly believed his father ,Women were not human.Not Real just animals Strangely I think his brother was more balanced and SANE that Typh or his Dad.
People having a problem with Typh killing the girls in cold blood: you do realise, in many cases, women and children were fair game when it came to killing everyone in the village, don’t you? Sometimes they were killed before the raping, sometimes after, and even sometimes during
Why are people saying Typh killed the girls in cold blood? You know what cold blood means, right? She just said he killed them in rage; by definition, that means not cold-blooded. Maybe “in cold blood” applies to what he’s about to do to that farm boy, but I’m wondering if people are just adding “cold blood” to make past Typh seem more evil than he has been portrayed.
@chemiclord: Fred Gallagher once gave me some advice along the lines of, “You can’t be afraid of letting people hate your characters, even the protagonists.”
How about the storytelling? This appears headed into a very one-dimensional somewhat politically correct strained and boorish plot twist that makes short thrift of the nuances of the somewhat tongue-in-cheek character psychology that has not, up to now, reverted to replace storytelling with applying labels of the “x is y, so he does z” kind.
@David I’m not exactly sure I’m reading you right, so bear with me if I’ve gleaned the wrong impression.
I think at this point in the webcomic world, there’s enough of a representation of gay or lesbian characters that to reveal a character is homosexual would be a fairly poor “twist.” Which, fortunately for me, Tiffany’s reveal is most certainly not.
There’s no real intended politically correct statement here. It’s part of the greater storyline, but merely a part. That Tiffany was/is gay isn’t the story.
It’s context. It’s Tiffany giving background to HER recollection of the events that led to her exile, something that I hope will bring the three prior accounts together into a complete sequence of events… as well as the real “twist” to come.
Calaron: agreed, ‘cold blooded’ would be if Typh was just walking around the back streets of the main city of the Illuminary Alliance (has the name actually been revealed yet?) and coming across an equally lost traveller looking for help and just simply leaving them in an un-recognisable-as-a-human pile of meat and bones and continuing on as though nothing happened
(what? don’t look at me like that, it happened with me, but not in Exiern, don’t even remember doing it, but won’t deny it either. by the way, the lost resident is now much better, and hunting her former fellow citizens for sport)
It’ll certainly be interesting to see where the story goes from here. I’m guessing Tiff needs to return to her tribe and deal with a few things there. Maybe Neils will even catch up with his niece some more. Or they could find they’ve been transported elsewhere for something more important, fly by dragon or even be ambushed by some other mob.
There’s several dozen story elements that appear to be floating around.
Faden visited several years ago for an unknown reason.
Ctyx has Faden’s hand, the “eye”, the magic book and Mira’s body which will likely end up in the lost city for resurrection.
Peonie’s Mother disappeared with one hell of a giant ruby.
The fractured are up to gods only knows what.
Neil’s reveal on what he paid to become an uber knight.
Dragon quest on why they’re dying.
Denver turning into a dragon and maybe reunite with his sister
Maybe a few things with Amalia and the theater.
I recall a Rus being imprisoned and they’re probably peeved at the death of their girl despite her intentions.
There is trainee spellsinger Pip with Ce stuck in his head now
Beyond that, I guess there is whatever the other spellsinger Tiff killed was up to with trying to kidnap Peonie.
Thats just off the top of my head. Probably another half-dozen strings around that could thread into the story again at any moment or inter-twine to form unforseen weaves.
Calaron,
In my case it was just an emotional reaction to what he did.
OTOH, rage/anger can be both hot and cold.
For some reason I get the feeling that Tiffany was born female and her father had some powerful magic cast to change her from female to male so that he could prove he had an heir. What Faden did was not so much as cast a curse on Tiffany but remove the magic keeping her male.
Just a theory mind you.
I’ve worked out why I used the term “cold blooded” and, on reviewing things, I think it might apply.
1. The decision to rape or to attempt a rape was made before the raids so was likely to be made in cold blood.
2. Killing someone for not arousing them is close to saying, “Look what you made me do.” A few years ago there was a psychological study into men who batter their wives. Just search: cobra pit bull personality type and pay special attention to the cobras.
Rape is a nasty thing. I am 45, my Dad told me when I was 15 that he came across 3 guys raping a underage girl in a the back room of a bar(this would been in the 1950s and my father been dead 30 years so I doubt there a Legal issue here ) everyone just Pretended it was not happening, He beat the the three of them and then he crippled them. He was a really big guy. He said they wear laughing and she could not been older than 12 Mexican crying. He said it just happened he stopped at a bar with my mom and my brother a then baby for a hamburger and he had to stop it, but then he saw the girl. He had no control he saw the child and he went cold like he was watching a movie. He beat them till the could not fight back, not to hurt them. Then used a bar stool Leg to break there Spines Use his hand to feel to make certain there spines wear severed so they never hurt a Woman or child again. He said he just planned to beat them but he looked at the child and thinking shut down. He just suddenly did not want to hurt them just cripple them.
The men had thought it all a Joke.
My dad said it was worsted thing he ever done bc it was so cold no emotion no control scared the hell out of him.
But I think Tiffs dad was Like those Guys.
The Ash tribe clearly thought in his dads time rape was fun. Not a Lack of control but a way to terrifie and Humiliate their Prey Southerners to dehumanize them.
So I think it was a tactical decision but a deliberately Evil one, What is Cold Blooded Exactly?
My Dad playing Vigilante quite literally out of his mind with cold Rage or three guy who reduced a child to meat while laughing ?
@Chemiclord, you shouldn’t feel the need to justify anything. The folks who don’t like where this is going probably have no idea where it is actually going. If you think the story you are telling is a good one, let it stand on its own.
Absolutely agree. @Chemiclord, you don’t have to explain. I like where things are going, just surprised a little with the path 🙂
…and that’s a ‘Good Thing'(tm)
I’m not attempting to justify anything really. At the end of the day, it’s my story… not anyone else’s. But I do like to try and keep engaged and let people into my thought process on occasion. It’s good to have discourse, it’s helpful to receive feedback.
Constructive feedback anyway. As before, I think one of the most significant things this is driving home is just how different your storytelling is to Drowemos’ with a much more serious tone and spacing of gags compared to the page by page gags. You’re just hitting the turbulence with some of the longer running story subjects Drow handed you getting wrapped up, expanded upon or covered in your own story telling style.
Hey! Who knew you could have multiple pages of comments?
Jonathan Wint: your dad didn’t want to hurt them just cripple them? Umm, unless he was Professor of Anatomy (or just happened to carry around enough tranquiliser to numb 3 men), he was damn lucky he didn’t kill them in his attempt ‘not to hurt them’
I don’t like the idea of Tiffany being a rapist/murderer. I really liked the idea of her being a barbarian hero.
Am I wrong to feel this way?
I hope she at least feels horrible about theses unspeakable crimes, and grew as a person after these incidents. I’ll wait and see.
Jonathan Wint: I have had similar experiences to your father with regards to the “going cold”, however, after the first time I would seek them out. There is a moment of fear, of the unknown, then you know that a physical confrontation is inevitable, suddenly, my body relaxes, my mind empties – it is the most peaceful moment and acceptance of what is to come. You roll the dice and gamble with your life and health – what drove me forward, the ultimate risk, not the harm to others.
Then you watch yourself do things, very scary on hind sight because you could kill someone and have no control.
There is no time for thought, only action and reaction.
People say that a berserker becomes filled with rage. Maybe that is something people assume from the level of violence. I wonder if I am what people talked about. I just become cold, like a crisp morning in a mountain valley with mint in the air, that sort of cold in my mind and otherwise empty. No rage.
(I no longer go out doing that, will be a decade soon, I replaced online gaming addiction with that. Sometimes in the beginning when I was trying to tell myself I was only wanting to go out for a drink, I would white knuckle it to hold out.)
That is the dark side.
On the positive side that suspension of consciousness has saved me a few times, I relax and give up home when in a seemingly pointless vehicle accident and suddenly the subconscious kicks in and does something amazing, going down a gap with half an inch on each side to spare, something I wouldn’t have been able to do when thinking about it, for example.
(Bit sleep deprived, work related) Correction :”…give up hope when in a seemingly hopeless vehicle accident …”
@Dr. Z, Are you wrong? No, can’t be wrong to have “how you’d like things to be”.
But it is perhaps naive to believe that a barbarian is not also a pillager or plunderer. And plunder and pillaging historically involve killing, looting, and rape.
@jmucchiello, yeah, I guess I just liked it better when the character was getting its influence more from He-Man and such rather then Attila the Hun.
Assuming he was gay, I’m not sure why that would make him any more accepting of being female…